"Bringing up Baby" didn't do much for breast feeding, did it?

[bohemianbint]

Everyone looked to be bottle feeding, the one woman who did do it looked to be having a crappy time of it and more airspace is given to the views of those who "don't want to see boobs in public"! Yet more slanting to make breastfeeding look like martyrdom for loony hippies. Not to mention the 4 hour routine that would be guaranteed to scupper anyone trying to establish breastfeeding in the early days.

What are the odds on them redeeming themselves next week, do you think?

Yes it would be an ideal opportunity for the BBC to step in with a hard-hitting gritty documentary called "the sad legacy of Claire Verity".

Claire Verity was on radio 5 this morning, saying she is nowhere near as strict with the babies she looks after, and that she was so strict on the programme as she was following a specific method.

Bck-peddling herself out of a huge hole maybe?? Especially as the baby show have 'uninvited' her after she was meant to be a guest speaker.

Well done, Emma! Lovely picture of you and your dd!

lazyemma I need that link!

Hello again ladies,

I've been training to be a peer support counsellor and I went to an update last week with a lady who runs La Leche. Conversation turned to "Bringing up Baby" and many of the midwives there said that if they got wind of a parent leaving a child outside for 4 hours they would be referred to social services. Bloomin right too - although I think my mum used to do this with my sister...

do you mean the link to the story, mrsmarvel? if so, here you are:

www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2007/10/04/newsstory10370385t0.asp

Thanks emma, you absolute heroine!
I'm going to put it on again in link form so even more people read of your heroism!

www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2007/10/04/newsstory10370385t0.asp

I can't believe the couples on the programme let her bully them so much. I can't imagine what I would have said to someone if they had tried to come between me and my crying baby in those early, sleep deprived, big old bag of hormones days.

I think the fact that CV wouldn't let the grandparents visit (and when they sneaked in she wouldn't let them see the children properly) proves that she is a rampant nut job, and possibly slightly psychopathic...

Round of applause for Lazyemma!

And don't forget to mention Claire Verity in her full name (Claire Verity), so any further google searches point to the Claire Verity (is a nut) topics posted here.

I wish Claire Verity would come and do a live talk, what the heck would she call herself though? As Claire Verity has already been taken

lol...the REAL Claire Verity...maybe

cv will prob never work again
hooray

And let's hope C4' commissioning people also get done for condoning child neglect. They got done for racism with Jade Goody, this is worse I think.

It is worse, because the Jade Goody situation was kind of outwith the programme maker's control - although the way they handled it was shoddy. In this case, the whole point of the programme is comparing these three methods, of which the Truby King one was selected precisely because of how severe and draconian it is.

And what concerns me is that the emphasis placed on Claire Verity is rather favourable and implies she has weight in her arguments.

I think this whole concept of this programme is awful and unethical. It has seriously put me off Channel 4 and even though i don't watch much telly, I am deliberately avoid channel 4 and intend to do so for the foreseeable future.

Now I must state that I'm all for doing what you think is best for your own baby and following instincts/taking advice with a pinch of salt but I've been pondering this sleeping in the parent's bedroom thing.

How does that make cot-death less likely ?

Dh and I sleep soundly and I'd never have heard either of my ds's "stop breathing" which I am guessing is what happens with cot-death.

What does having the baby in the parents room for 6 months do that reduces the likelihood of cot-death ?

Can someone please educate me ?

I don't know, fedup. I just do what the SIDS people say, really - same with not putting my daughter to sleep on her front, or not smoking in the house (I'll occasionally have a cigarette with a glass of wine). I am terrified by cot death so I just do what I'm told and hope that'll be enough to ensure it doesn't happen to us.

fedup, the evidence is mostly epidemiological....that is, the research takes a whole huge number of cot deaths and compares the same whole huge number with babies who didn't die, and looks at the different factors. You need massive numbers so you can ensure you can rule out stuff, and focus on solely the things that really do seem to make a difference.

Even when everything else is taken into account, more babies (proportionately) die if they are in a room away from the parents than if they share the same room.

It's speculation why this should be the case, but it probably is something to do with awareness - not so much of stopping breathing, but maybe spluttering, or crying, and the parent attends to the baby more readily as a result.

Similarly with smoking - why are babies who come into the parents bed apparently at risk if the parents smoke? We don't know - something to do with toxins on the exhaled breath of the parent? Maybe.

Even the 'back to sleep' discovery is pure epidemiology. It's speculated that this helps the baby regulate his temp. better, but speculation is all it is. What is not in doubt is that it makes a difference, and that 'back to sleep' is safer.

as tiktok says, no-one is entirely sure why the advice works, but we can say that it does. certainly since the new guidance was issued the rate of cot death has consistently reduced, so in real terms thousands of babies are alive now who would otherwise not have survived.
the explanation I was given re the sleeping in the same room is that sometimes very small babies "forget" to breathe and having someone in the room also breathing in some way "reminds" or regulates the breathing.
newborn babies are in so many awys helpless - it is just an accident of evolution that has meant our gestational period is much shorter than it "should" be for babies to be able to look after themselves, so it makes sense for babies to be kept as close as possible.

by the way, did anyone see CV getting her arse kicked by the FSIDS woman on BBC Breakfast News. CV was extremely flustered when faced someone with a few brain cells to rub together.

Well if it's Claire Verity you mean I'm not surprised (I write her name in full so her flaming here gets picked up by googlers).

It's clear she's never really thought about bringing up babies in any great depth, as though her theories are based on an instinctive urge to force children to be controlled at all costs.

The woman needs help. Unfortunately she's creating a load more women who will soon also need help when their kids can't function properly as they're older.

the research into mother and infant sleep conducted by Dr James McKenna at the University of Notre Dame and Dr Helen Ball at the University of Durham (UK) in their sleep labs point to several factors which seem to be beneficial to preventing cot death when bf mothers room share and bed share.

one seems to be that the mother's own breathing patterns seems to help to regulate the infant's own breathing pattern.

neither mum or baby enter the fourth stage of sleep which is the deepest and it is hypothesised that this is when sleep apnea is more likely to occur and infants who have an immaturely developed nervous system may 'forget' to start to breathe again.

It has been observed that when babies who are co-sleeping seem to 'stop' breathing for a little while, that co-sleeping bfing mothers rouse their infants without actually ever becoming concious (sp) of what they have done.

that the sleep patterns of mum and baby synchronise so they enter deeper and lighter phases of sleep together so that the mother's sleep pattern is actually 'guiding' the baby through the night.

One of the things McKenna discusses is that the majority of cosleeping deaths are actually sofa-sleeping deaths or deaths that occur where parents are under the influence of drugs or alcohol. The recommendation by FSIDS and the American equivalent is based on a single study in the US where there was no distinction made between bed/ waterbed/sofa/beanbag and who was actually in the bed with the child. It is found taht if another adult who is not a parent or a child is in the bed with a baby, that person does not have the same protective instinct as a parent. It did not take into consideration either if the child died while alone in the adult bed or that the death may be caused by poor design of the bed. Eg being trapped between the bed and the mattress or stangled by bars on the bed.

this is all off the top of my head and I am in a bit of a hurry. so apologies and apologies about the length too.