Why can’t I express :(

[tollyfeeder]

My baby girl is 16 days old and is breastfed.

At 5 days she lost 10.3%
From then until now her weight has gone up and then back down and she remains static at 2.6kg which is the 10.3% loss.

I’ve been told there is a clinical need for formula top ups, something I really didn’t want to have to do.

I’m told that If I can express then I can top her up with my own milk, but the issue is I’m not getting anything.

I have an Ardo Calypso pump and I’m pumping both breasts at the same time.

It takes a good 10 minutes of having the pump on before I even start to see a trickle, then it just stops.

From both breasts combined I get 10ml 😞

What am I doing wrong and why aren’t I producing enough milk.

This is braking my heart

Try expressing from one side while baby is feeding from the other side, or doing skin to skin, to help your hormones.

I couldn’t express with my first two, I think it was the small pump as I had a hospital grade pump for the third and it was fine. You can rent them but they’re not cheap.

Don’t worry about giving some formula. Lots of babies are mixed fed, it’s more common than you think. Your baby will still get the benefits of breast milk especially when ill etc. She probably needs to get her weight and strength up to feed more, so a bit of formula won’t hurt now.

One of mine was mixed fed for months as she was so tiny, and then ended up on breast only a few months later.

Also, milk production is easier if you’re not worried so hard as it is, try not to stress.

Echo previous pp don't worry about giving formula.

With my first I breastfed and was stressing as I needed to express to leave a bottle but I couldn't get anything out the electric pump. I think stress played a major part in that. I then tried Medela manual breast pump later and I found I was able to pump more but that could just be a coincidence with establishing my milk supply.

Make sure you're drinking lots of water too. Good luck

OP- You're doing so well... know it mightn't feel like it, but hope you feel the love and support from this thread!

Have they ref'd you to the infant feeding team/is there an IBCLC you can contact /drop-on you can attend locally?

There's several things that need to be considered...
(1) How is feeding - is the positioning/attachment/latch good enough to help you and baby transfer the milk effectively? (This includes considering if there is anything noticeable with baby's mouth/tongue/is there anything restricting its movement/ability
(2) is there any reason that you might not be producing enough milk - physical development/problems during labour/birth/medication you're taking.
(3) is your pump technique good/is your stress at needing to pump restricting your body's reaction- to reassure you that volume pumped is not a true measure of how much baby can feed at all (such different techniques/trigger different hormonal responses)

With this observation/assessment, they'd be able to help you form (shouldn't be dictatorial - your voice/wishes take presidency) a plan to maximise milk transfer and maintain/build your milk supply or support you offering donor milk/formula if it was needed.

V best of lucky lovely x

Don't worry, I worried constantly about not being able to express, but I was definetly producing enough for my 97th centile hungry DS. Like you I'd literally manage 10ml from both sides. It was a relief to give up expressing and concetrating on just feeding DS directly. We did give a bottle for formula from around 4 weeks onwards to give me a few hours of sleep in one go overnight, it saved my sanity and our BF journey

It helped me if I looked at phots of my baby while expressing, I think it was a tipi read on here! Otherwise hardly any milk came out.

I have a silicon breast pump that I put on the opposite side when I’m feeding the baby. I get much more in the silicon pump than when using my electric pump. The let down reflex when the baby is feeding helps. Don’t give up just yet and remember “fed is best”. Don’t beat yourself up about it.

How long are you doing it for? You need to express for a minimum of 25 mins at the beginning as you will get several let downs. I get 20 ounces in the first 10 mins then nothing for 5 mins, then 40 ounces between 20-30mins.

I wouldn't take it as a sign you aren't producing milk. I successfully breastfed 4 babies but could never get anything out when I used a pump! Hand expressing tended to work a little better for me x

I think you need to see a lactation specialist to work out what’s going on.
It could be low supply, it could be low supply secondary to tongue tie or poor attachment. It could be pumping technique.

In the meantime could you supplement using an SNS which would help up your supply? My babies have had similar weight patterns and I have hypoplasia and low supply secondary to PCOS but an SNS helped us keep breastfeeding past a year.

How is your baby? Does she seem hungry? Fretful, unsettled? How often are you putting her on the boob? Have you seen a lactation consultant? I can't help with the pumping I'm afraid as I had a chronic oversupply and could pump 250ml in about 10 mins (and had repeated and horrible mastitis). Listen to others with more pumping experience.

You are doing an AMAZING job Mama. You are breastfeeding your daughter. If she needs a formula top up then so be it. It's no reflection on you as a Mummy and believe me, when she's 2 you'll barely register this angst you feel now

I could never get anything from a manual or electric pump, but (after a big weight loss, slow gain, a tongue tie snip and a difficult few weeks) I clearly.had plenty of milk for DD. Just couldn't express. A silicone pump however was amazing. Mine was the naturebond (cheap as chips on amazon). Whack it one boob while.feeding on the other. I found it worked best for me first thing in the morning when I used to leak loads. You are doing a fab job and it will get easier.

I exclusively expressed for the first 3 month of my baby’s life (because of problems with latch). I know it’s slightly different to your situation OP but here are the things that worked for me: lots of skin to skin, lots of water (as soon as I wasn’t drinking gallons of water, expressing was getting really difficult) and having my baby in sight (or even in my arms) whilst expressing. My DM very generously bought a hospital grade pump for me and I had those funny looking “bras” which allow for hands free expressing. Also, I had to do it regularly to keep the supply up (but you wouldn’t have that issue as you’re feeding your baby anyway).
All the best for you OP

The person who can best increase your milk supply is your baby. Skin to skin, basically. It a pheromone thing- just lie on the sofa with your baby on you.

Also, make sure you're getting enough calories- eat the cake! Vitamins, hydrated etc

Stress played merry hell with my milk production so try to relax. Put some shit tele on, baby on one boob, pump on the other. Large bottle of water and high calorie snacks of choice. Have a small glass of wine later if you want.

One or two bottles of formula in the next week or two won't do her any harm. It might get her to put on those few ozs that keep the medics happy?

The important thing is to have her on your breast as much as possible.

This might sound really weird but someone told me about putting a sock over the pump bottle. I don't get loads from expressing but when I switched from a medela pump to the Elvie I was getting more milk even though people have said it isn't as good. Someone said to me it was the sock effect as I couldn't see what I was expressing with the Elvie I was relaxing more when doing it and as I wasn't stressed I was producing more milk.
It may not work but could be worth a try.
I also ate loads of oats (porridge and flap jacks) and took fenugreek tablets from H&B as some people say they help milk supply.
I mixed fed my first after poor weight gain. Wasn't my plan but she was happy and healthy. I was told after she was gaining to go back to just BF but as she was doing so well I continued with the mix feeding.
I hope it all works out for you

I exclusively express with an Ardo calypso, so different from your situation, I usually get around 4oz on my middle of the night and first am pump and then 2-3oz all other pumps. Though it took a lot of effort to build it up to that amount. We also do formula when I can’t express enough. If I have time, I single pump each side as I feel it produces more but I do double pump in the middle of the night.
My dd is 22 days old.

I second what lots of people have said here about a silicon 'pump' on the other side when you are feeding (get it on before you start to catch all the letdown)

Also smelling your baby and snuggling them, sniffing their clothes or looking at pictures of them when you try to express. I know it's hard but try to relax when you're doing it as well - easier said than done. Watch something funny on tv before to relax you.

Time of day can have an impact, I think middle of the night is meant to be best for supply so you could try to express then - I know this is not what you will want to read. And keep going as it will all be boosting supply.

Above all - be kind to yourself. It's so hard with a newborn, and you have a lovely daughter you are nourishing and helping to grow. This is really hard and you are doing amazingly. However you end up topping her up will not change this. Sending support and encouragement.

I have the same pump (single) but I also have oversupply so could be a factor. I've always done ok with it but agree that catching the let down using a haaka pump is much more efficient than the electric pump. Are you starting with a quick cycle and high vacuum as you can stand and then reducing the cycle frequency? That's supposed to mimic baby's suck.

I've also seen a tip online to cover the bottle so you can't see how much you're collecting which takes the stress away and helps you collect more. I haven't tried this though.

The person who can best increase your milk supply is your baby. Skin to skin, basically. It a pheromone thing- just lie on the sofa with your baby on you

This. Forget routine, feeding times, everything. Lie on the sofa and feed your baby. encourage them to suck as much as possible- even if they don’t feed the sucking stimulates supply.

I know it’s a pain but night feeds are also extremely important as they drive the hormones that increase supply.

Get some proper bf help. La leche league or similar. Find a hv who understands bf. Understand that clinical syptoms- hydration, activity, wee, poo, are equally as important as the numbers on a scale.

Many hcp when bf doesn’t follow a prescribed path fall back to a topping up/expressing/prescribed routine which is often counter productive. Formula and expressing will have a detrimental affect on supply compared to feeding more.

Expressing i found helpful to do at exactly the same times- for example immediately after a feed when baby slept, or at 9am each day, or before a feed. It does take a few days for your supply to catch up to being asked for more.