Help me ! 4 month old ds waking twice in the night what can I do to knock it down to once

[Aliway]

Hi there, I hope someone is able to give me some advice. My exclusively breast fed ds has started waking twice in the night usually 0130 and 0430 then again at 0730 for the past 2 weeks, initially I thought it was a growth spurt but has continued on. He goes to bed at 8-9pm and I feed him off both sides when I go to bed at 10pm, he is asleep when he wakes in the night but very hungry taking both sides. He is feeding less in the day (4-5 hrly) after his 0730 feed will often sleep most of the morning until 1230 and then is awake for the rest of the day.He used to marathon feed in the evening before this and would often sleep through or wake only once. I am getting a bit desperate and am starting to dream of baby rice as an answer, any advice?

Have you tried putting him to breast at regular times in the day to see if he will have more in the day? I know a lot of people despise the Gina Ford thing but I found it very helpful as a guideline - not obsessively to the letter! I bottle fed but my friend breast fed and used Gina Ford as a guide and it worked for her too.
If your ds is a large baby maybe it is the right time for him to start on solids.
Another thing to perhaps consider is your diet. I know bf councillors say it doesn't matter but I have worked with the digestion for years (I do lymph drainage) and I would say it really does matter what you eat because there are essential amino acids which baby needs which your liver cannot synthesize so it needs to get it from diet. Bf councillors say that your breast milk will take the nutrients from your body if it's lacking in the diet but amino acids will only be stripped from your body if you are starving and burning muscle. So you do need to eat well. Make sure you are eating easy to digest good quality protein e.g. lamb, fish, eggs, and make sure you eat plenty of complex carbohydrates e.g. potatoes, whole grain bread, basmati rice. Try to separate protein from carbs as digestion is easier that way.
The wet nurses from the past ate a superior diet to ensure they produced highly nutritious milk.
I hope that some of this helps! x

Hi Aliway, there are probably a thousand different answers to this so I can ony offer what worked for us...

It is possible that he may be needing extra food (i.e. weaning to baby rice), whatever the current advice, some babies are ready before the six months. However, I would say you need to be really sure that this is the case. What makes me think that this might not be the case is that you write that he is drinking less in the day, have I got that right? Is this since he has started waking more in the night? If so, it may be becase he is supplementing too much in the night (and getting night and day a bit mixed up!). How is he feeding at 7.30a.m? Has this decreased? My DS had a similar pattern, sometimes he would wake just the once but more often it would be twice - at similar times to your DS. I started cutting down the 4.30a.m. feed (less time on boob!)until I stopped it altogether - it was as much about habit as hunger. If he is a good weight and is drinking well in the day then he should be able to go through from midnight (at least from a hunger standpoint).

Sleep often goes completely to pot at this age, seemingly without ryhme or reason. If he is very hungry when feeding in the night he obviously needs his milk - I would second what manuka says about trying to get more into him during the day. And baby rice will do nothing for his sleep, unless you hit him over the head with the packet [not serious advice folks].

why don't you try a formula bottle for bed time with hungry baby formula so it fills him up more before bed. Only problem is this might reduce your milk supply but will give him a chance to sleep through.

I did the baby rice thing at 4 months as I was desperate for a night's sleep. I introduced it slowly as a gloopy mix of breastmilk with a teaspoon of rice once a day and then once DS was used to it I gave it at about 7pm with milk after and then bed. The first night he slept through I woke at 6pm for the first night of rest for 4 months.

Hiya, the info above about diet is v helpful, I wish someone had tole me that all those months ago.

i had this exact same problem with my dd who's now one and often dreamed wistfully about baby rice!

The way we sorted ti which isn't neccessarily the right way but it worked for us is.

Cluster feed from 4pm onwards.
Down to bed after big feed (2 boobs) at 7/8ish.

Then leaving her to wake for next feed when she chose (ie no 10pm/dream feed). The feed as normal next wake up. Then offer a lttle nest wake up gradually reducing over the course of a few days.

Then did the shuch pat method from baby whisprerer everytime she woke up (usually 2 or 3 times from 4am onwards) took it in turns (no feeding).

Tehn 7amish feed as normal, 3 hours later feed again etc.

the patting thing in the night was hard work but worth it, got her into the habit of taking her food in the daylight hours.

Howver we never did the 10pm/late night feed thing. My thery was that as she always (from birth) slept past midnight anyway we'd leave her to sleep. Some of my frineds did this feed however and were really nervous about dropping it cos of the possible implications so it's up to you!

They do get hungrier at this age. Have a look at some of the weaning therads to get some views on when to wean.

Best of luck xx

Same xperience as saffymum for me and my dd.

teaspoon of babyrice at 4.5months. Slept through til 7am.

First time of more than 3 hours continous sleep for me since birth. I was tired and desperate.

However, really weigh all the options up seriously before considering weaning, it's abig decision.

My dd was a little sleeper and. reluctant feeder in the morning too. Might just be about cutting down 4 am feed and re-establishing it in the morning.

hmm this is interesting, my exclu bf ds is 20 weeks and has never stopped night feeding - he dreamfeeds, rarely wakes unless hungry, does not comfort feed at all. I've just carried on with it because, well, he's so patently hungry - and frankly I'm the sort of person who will get out of bed to feed myself at 3am if hungry enough! Did it nearly every night during last 3m of pg!

I've never been able to do cluster-feeding - if he doesn't want to feed he does his mouth up like a cat's bum and nothing is going in there - he will wake and feed when he's ready and not before!

Plus I am finding his daytime feeds are all jumbled by teething, by that 4m "let's look at everything rather than feed" phase, etc.

But the consensus here is that I should be stopping his night feeds...?

Thank you very much for all the suggestions. I am not keen at all to formula feed as I have managed thus far to do without it. I will try offering him more during the day, but he only eats when he fancies it and purses his lips and turns his head when he's not keen!!

I don't think there is any should about dropping night feeds. I say do what suits you and your baby. Just as some babies will get teeth early or late, will sit up or crawl at different times etc, so some babies continue to need night feeds longer. My DS is dairy intolerent and it took a while with weaning until he had sufficient solids to begin cutting down his milk (which he did spontaneously). So if I had cut down on his milk at night because someone else thought he should have been able to go through the night without it, I would have been doing him a disservice IMO. But if night feeds are unbearable for the mother and the baby is older than say, 6 months, IMO it is okay to do something about it. I realise other people feel differently on the subject though.

That was to phdlife btw..

My seven month old still wakes two or three times a night during growth spurts, it is a signal to your body to change the milk.

These can last longer than two weeks so if you can stick with it before doing something else it might improve. As many people say that theirs slept through on rice or formula before bed there are others who find this doesn't help. Milk is more calorific than rice and sometimes formula causes more problems/tummy aches etc.

You do sound desperate though, I don't feel that bad with night wakings but I know some people can't cope with it. I'm sure you know the weaning advice and I'm not saying don't try anything else I just think it's worth persevering if you can.

Hope it settles down whatever you decide.

My 8 month old did the same thing at about 4 months and it lasted just over 3 weeks, just as I got to the point where I'd had enough. It stopped over night and he is now back to either waking only once or sleeping through. I also thought it couldn't be a growth spurt because it lasted ages.

A BFC warned me that the 4 month time was a killer - but we got through it just fine, without solids or FF, but it was hell for those long nights of interrupted sleep.

I'd go with it for a little longer (especially if he is hungry when he wakes) and see if it passes or try and feed more in the day time (though my DS was having none of that!)