7 mos old- how much milk?

[Tissy]

Dd is 7 months old and goes to nursery 5 days a week. She has 2 jars of food for lunch (1 savoury, 1 pudding)with as much dilute juice as she wants, and another jar of food mid-afternoon. I send 2 7oz bottles of EBM with her, which she drinks mid-morning and mid afternoon. In addition, she is breastfed morning, evening and 1-3 times in the night, depending on when she wakes! I'm finding it harder and harder to express 14oz of milk a day at work (due to time constraints mostly) and have started to water down her milk a little, but am worried that this may be why she's waking at night- not getting enough milk in daylight hours. Can anyone tell me how much breastmilk a baby needs at this age?. I thought that when she started solids, she'd take less milk, and wonder if she's just drinking it because its there. If I cut down her daytime bottles to maybe 1 x 7oz EBM and another of juice will she just want more and more at night? This whole weaning business is just far too complicated!!

Tissy - I'd cut down on the juice if I were you. Water is far better for her and her teeth. Still offer juice if you want but as a treat would be better rather than all the time.

I've just stopped providing ebm (dd is 1) and like you found it hard to get a happy medium. I'm not a b/f expert but I would think as long as dd is getting milk in the morning and at night what she has during the day won't matter too much. I'll double check though and get back to you.

You mention time constraints for expressing - what are they exactly? I just decided that if work didn't like it tough - I was b/f my child and would continue until I wanted to stop, not when work dictated. It worked we still have a good b/f relationship.

Again, I'm not sure but I wouldn't water down her milk - just give her less. Have you checked whether she does drink all the milk you provide? I checked with my nursery and found that they often threw some of it away.

I doubt she'll want more at night - she may well be drinking it because it is there.

Hope some of this helps and I'll check out the other issues.

Thanks for your comments, TVWoman.

My dd will not drink water, I've tried on numerous occasions, offering her it in a bottle, cup, thirsty or not thirsty, with or without food. I've even tried diluting down the EBM very gradually. She would happily take 4oz of water with half an oz of EBM added, but when the bottle was craftily swapped for one with no EBM in it, she refused to take it. We're in the process of doing the same with her juice, but even so, she only gets it with a meal, so the potential damage to teeth is very small.

As for the time constraints of expressing, I don't want to go into too many details, but I work in healthcare, and am pretty much my own boss. I usually plan to express when I arrive at work at 8 am, then at lunchtime and mid-afternoon. Depending on what I need to do that day, I sometimes miss the morning session, and often miss the afternoon session. This is not because anyone is forcing me to work rather than express, but because if the work needs to be done, it needs to be done by me, and right away.
Sorry I'm not being very clear, but much more detail and I could identify myself, and one of the great things about Mumsnet is the ability to chat on equal terms with lots of other people with complete anonymity.

Tissy - anonymity is fine by me!

I understand completely how you feel re time constraints. I am sort of my own boss (have my own projects) and regularly think - I'll express later, I'll express later. Before I know it, it's time to go home.

I recently had a long weekend away and was worried about leaving enough ebm. Work was particularly chaotic so I would feed dd and then express or if I felt full express from one and feed with the other - dd very rarely has both when feeding. Slowly but surely I built up the milk again.

Re the water - yup I know that situation too! dd refused water for quite a while - she's probably only taken to it in the last 3 months or so, although I did occasionally try to give her sips from a cup. One thing I found was - we tend to drink bottled water at home and dd was most intrigued by this - so much so that she wanted to as well. Strange how the same substance offered in a cup was turned down but because she was having something we had it was ok!

You've not answered the question on what the nursery have said about how much dd takes. I think this is the important issue as if she's not taking it at all then you could drop how much you provide.

Tissy, solids contain less calories than breastmilk so your baby might indeed be feeling hungry at times. You could call a breastfeeding counsellor who will be ale to come up with some possible solutions. NCT BFC's are available from 8am - 10pm on 0870 444 8708. HTH!

HI Tissy --
Both my kids only took 8-10oz of EBM at nursery from 5 months old, 2 full days/week. I suspect your DD is waking up for other reasons?

I struggle to express the 8 oz my DD would like, so just send in now (11m old) what I can do (usually more like 6-7 oz). I'm convinced that she drinks more at nursery than she would actually take off of me. So... I'm minded to think that watering down a bit wouldn't be so bad in your case.
The rules of thumb for how much milk from 6months to 1 yo is 1 pint -- or 20 fluid ounces. I reckon a reasonably full breast is about 3-4 oz, if that helps you work out how much your DD is getting rest of the day. Maybe she just wakes up because she misses you in the day & it's a way of keeping touch? 5 days in nursery is a lot for a babe to be away from her mum.

Yeah, I know 5 days is a lot...but going part-time just isn't feasible even if we could survive on half my salary, which we can't. Having a child wasn't an option when I was young and the job more flexible, as at that point there was no man! I'm not complaining about dd waking at night , I can cope (mostly), I just wondered if the reason was food. I realise that breastmilk has more calories than solids, but surely there must come a point where the amount of solids consumed is adequate? My SIL has a baby 2 mos older than dd, and was surprised how much she (dd) eats. She really seems to want to eat it, too, there is no element of force here, she sits in her highchair and bangs her spoon until we start to shovel it in!

Tissy - do not worry about lack of ebm. She is getting plenty from you when she feeds - so much so that you could scale down what you are sending to nursery.
When I left for work I would leave ebm that was taken at meal times. Could I suggest a wee change. Why not try leaving 4 oz of EBM to be given with a 2 course meal. She could have a snack/ biscuit in the afternoon. Juice could be given mid-morning and afternoon. If you have extra EBM you could send it. If not you don't need to worry. Give her 2 courses at tea-time as well. I have to say that I failed terribly on the water front and all my kiddies had juice - usually a watered down baby juice. Dd drinks water now age 8yrs. She is the only one of the 4 to have needed a tiny filling 2 yrs ago. The boys do not have any fillings age 11-15yrs which I think is pretty damned good.
When I expressed at work I could get 7oz so I think a breastfeed is probably in excess of that. I am sure your dd is getting plenty of milk from you. She may well just be looking for the breast at night because she has missed it during the day rather than actual hunger. You will get 101 suggestions what to do about that. I personally fed whenever they wanted it because I was happy to do that. Breastfeeding very quickly passes in the scheme of things to do in babyhood. Hope that helps in some way.

Blimey, mears, do you mean 7oz in one go, or for a whole day at work? The most I can get in one go, both sides is 5oz!!

It was when I worked night shift so my boobs were usually busting by that point having missed a couple of feeds. Never as much during the day.

Many a time I would have delivered a baby, triggering off my let down and having to excuse myself from the room with milk dripping

Didn't answer the question - yes it was in one go. That's why I was saying your dd will be getting enough milk the amount of times you actually B/F her. The breast is a wonderfully deceptive apparatus

Tissy - don't worry too much about how much you can or can't express - the worry alone will prevent you from expressing. Whatever you provide dd during the day will be a bonus on top of what you give her during her morning and night feeds so don't worry too much.

You're doing a fantastic job of still feeding her anyway!

Also - don't worry about how much milk dd is taking when she does b/feed. She'll let you know when she's had enough. Also, time is no indicator - she could feed for 10 minutes and still take more than when she might feed for half an hour.

Hope you find a good compromise soon.

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Tissy - have you spoken to the nursery? Just wondering how you're getting on?

Yes- they swear that they never throw any away, she drinks the lot!

Last night she woke up on the dot of every 2 hours, I hope she's teething ( although didn't actually seem distressed) as I can't take much more of that!

Tissy - poor you! Hopefully it's just a growth spurt and in a couple of days she'll settle down again.

Have you sought any advice from a breastfeeding counsellor? When I first started b/feeding I really struggled and found the ABM website. They were very helpful and I'm still in touch with quite a few of them.

I could comment till the cows come home but I'm no expert (well not on other people's children). The ABM have trained counsellors who could help you out with this.

I'll dig out the website (in case you don't have it) and get back to you.

Hi Tissy - back again!

Website is: home.clara.net/abm/

Haven't been on it for a while and they've got a chat group now (more chat groups to while away the hours....)

I personally think you could reduce the amount of ebm you give dd and see how she gets on. If it causes a problem then you can review the situation. I wouldn't water it down either. As you said in a previous posting, she might just be drinking it all because it's there.

Hope things sort themselves out soon. :-)

Tissy - you will always get the few shi**y nights where your are up feeding 2 hourly. It should not continue for more than 2 or 3 nights. If it does you might want to think about sending dh through to her. Is she actually in the same room? It may be that if she is you should think about moving her to her own room away from the smell of you. I don't have experience of that because I never had continual nights of frequent feeding at this age - it tended to be sporadic. Hopefully it will be the same thing for you.
Look on the bright side - all that feeding at night will increase your milk supply no end

Forgot to say Tissy, that although my dd did not start solids until 6 months old, she was on 3 meals a day at 7 months. Breakfast, 2 course lunch and 2 course tea along with breast feeds/EBM/juice, depending if I was there or not.

Hi Tissy - just wondering how you are? Any joy with reducing ebm provided at nursery, or expressing more?

Just back to nursery after a 2 week break. She seems to have voluntarily dropped her afternoon bottle of milk in favour of a snack, so maybe the pressure is off a little, but I'll wait and see. She has yoghurt with fruit puree most days, so maybe she's getting enough of that sort of thing!

Amazingly, after an uncharacteristic wake-up and feed at 9.30 pm last night she slept until 6 am. I'm not stupid enough to think that it will last, as she's done this before and gone back to being as wakeful as ever, but I'm pondering the idea of a late evening feed again, even though in the past it made no difference!

BTW, sorry for not responding to your comments, mears. Luckily the sh*tty nights didn't last, back to waking once or twice again! I would dearly love to put her in her own room, as she does get disturbed, sometimes by dh snoring or turning over in bed, but it needs some serious building work (new floor and ceiling), which we can't afford ATM, as we've just spent a fortune on a new roof- maybe after Christmas!

Both my two fed every two hours from birth right through. I was exhausted. They both dropped daytime feeds quickly enough once on solids but constantly woke up at night. In the end I just got fed up and moved DS into his own room. He continued to wake but I didn't alwasy go and certainly didn't feed. We dropped one of the night feeds and then the other. It did work. And he then started sleeping. I'm sure it was all habit. I was a bit wiser with no. 2 and once we got to this stage, again I decided enough was enough. I loved feeding and was quite sad to stop but I needed the sleep!

Neither would take water (can't say I blame them really) and neither would take baby rice (definitly don't blame them). I found that once I started mashing my own food if I kept it all seperate rather than mixed up like the jars tehy ate much more.I think different flavours helps stop them getting bored so they eat more.

After I stopped BF at 12 months neither would touch any other milk so that was that. Just lots of cheese and yoghurts.

Its funny how when they are small it doesn't seem that bad getting up to feed them but as the months pass I guess it all adds up and eventually you just need a good nights sleep. Desperation helps you get more tough!

Good Luck, she'll get the balance right eventually.