emergency expressing advice needed - how much?

[Jasper]

I need some advice regards expressing breast milk.

My baby will be six months old next week and despite a shaky start has been breastfed all that time with no other solids or liquids at all.

I am not good at expressing so have hardly ever done it, managing instead to come home from work in the lunch hour to feed him so it has never been a necessity.

However I have to go into hospital this Friday (this is Tuesday evening) for an operation and an overnight stay and I have left it a bit late to get going with the expressing.

I have tried various methods (including hands only)and my medela mini pump is the best of a bad lot, by which I mean I really don't like expressing as it is a bit uncomfortable, takes ages - I just got 1 and a half ounces and it took me half an hour, switching between sides. It always makes me quite nauseous - anyone else feel like this?
I have tried the usual stuff, like massaging breasts first, doing it in the bath, with baby on the other breast but I am still pretty rubbish.

Anyway, how many fluid ounces am I likely to need for an overnight stay away from baby? ( Say between 9pm and 9am plus perhaps one more feed for during the op)
As he only ever feeds from the breast I have no idea how much he will need.

A friend of my midwife had to have a night away from her baby and the baby had to be fed one formula feed as she was a feed short. I realise this would not be the end of the world but we have come this far with breastmilk and I would like to keep it that way.

Lately he has been feeding for about two hours in total throughout the night, sometimes more, and I am wondering whether this might be a good time to introduce solids..
Please advise.
I should add I did consider taking him into hospital but this would not really be practical.
Thanks

I have a 6 month old dd, we started her on soldis a couple of months ago, which has effected the amount of milk she drinks, but have had to express as she is now going to a child minder. I have found that 100 - 125ml (3 oz(?)) is enough for a day. I have also mixed in some formula, at a ratio of EBM4:1 formula. DD didn't seem to notice, and the extra 30/40 ml has come in handy. Will your baby take water from a bottle/beaker?
I find I have the most success expressing first thing in the morning, anytime after about 9am and it's hopeless,

Bl*dy h*l Jasper, you've left this a bit late

First - don't panic. Some people have a psychological difficulty with expressing and it turns into a vicious cycle when you don't get very the first few times. You can do it.
Because you are a bit turned off expressing I would definately use the pump rather than hand express. Definately massage the breast forward to the nipple prior to using the pump. Make sure you are in a nice and warm room , possibly with the lights dimmed. Have a couple of glasses of wine for relaxation effect even ( in the evening).
Express when you are nearly due to feed. Because you don't get much at a time it might make it easier when your breasts are fuller. Don't worry if your baby needs fed immediately after - there will be plenty of milk still in the breast.
Read a book/magazine that has nothing to do with babies. Sometimes when you concentrate too hard on baby things it can be counter productive. Continue to switch between sides to keep flow going.
Aim to get an ounce or more at each session. If you get more keep going till it stops.
I used to leave 6-7 oz feeds for my babies when they were that age- sometimes it was watered down if I was a bit short. If you are having real difficulty getting much get someone to bring the baby to hospital later on if you can - a feed around 11pm might be better than 9pm. If possible it would be a good idea to have him brought for a feed prior to op otherwise you may get engorged going 12 hours without feeding him. Is there a granny or friend who can help out? Theatre lists rarely start before 8.30am.
If you had someone to help then you could have him at the hospital - it is you right to have a B/F baby with you. Is the overnight stay before or after surgery? If before you could arrange to be admitted fasted. If after, can someone bring baby to you for feeds?
I had an op to be sterilised when dd was 3 months old. I went in fasted in the morning. I fed her prior to going to thatre then dh took her home. She took a couple of feeds when I was away and I got home just after 7pm the same night. At that time women were usually kept overnight.

Solids won't help before Friday but starting soon would probably be a good idea.

Congratulations for exclusively feeding for six months - I remember you had difficulties before from previous threads. As you say it won't be the end of the world if you need to give formula but I am sure - with some creative thinking you will get round it. Let us know how you get on. Good luck

ps if all else fails do you have a B/F friend who could donate EBM?

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Jasper, I live fairly near to you and could donate some EBM in an emergency.

I've found that the way to get a reasonable volume when expressing is to concentrate on getting a good let down. Follow mears' advice- full breasts, comfy chair, glass of wine etc, and this is the really useful bit... twiddle the nipple that doesn't have the pump attached!! I know it sounds odd, and I can't remember where I got that bit of advice, but it really works for me. When you get the feeling of let down, the milk will whoosh out. I use the Avent hand pump and don't start pumping till I get the feeling, but using the electric pump I would start it off on a low setting, twiddle the other nipple and if it starts to flow then turn up the knob!!

I also find (like mears) that it seems to work better if my mind is distracted from baby stuff. A ring telephone seems to work very well!!

At 6 mos, my dd was drinking 6/7 oz at a sitting, but I have tried the mears watering down trick and she didn't notice:0

I agree - I could not express anything if I could so much as hear either of my boys. I had most success expressing whilst surfing the net! I used the Avent Isis pump and found it fantastic - if you've not tried it could you borrow one?

Nothing else to add really,
Good luck

Just to add - I found a double pump the most successful, and I was complete rubbish at expressing before - so you could consider hiring one from the NCT or Ameda (they are pretty expensive to buy) - I'm sure they could do an emergency delivery ASAP. Also you are probably only getting 1oz because you are feeding all the time - you will express more when you skip a feed. La Leche actually advise introducing solids in preference to formula if need be - but agree that the timeline is a bit short.

Personally I think past six mos, sleep seems to have very little to do with eating, apart from the fact that if you feed when they wake up in the night, then they get used to it and feel hungry then and can't get back to sleep! You might want to think about sleep-training at some stage. I introduced solids at 5mths and found it made no difference to length of time sleeping.

Jasper - well done for going this far !!!
I'd rent a pump for a few days Ameda or Medela (industrial pump)... It's 9£ + 1£ a fay
I think Mears' idea of asking a friend is a good one (if a friend can donate 3 or 4 oz ???)... It's hard to say how much you will need.... have as much as possible (I'd say 2 full bottles is more than enough!) and have formula at hand in case... at least you won't worry that he isn't feeding.
Besides your breast - is he use to other ways of feeding ??? Cup, bottle ?

Thanks everyone for lots of great advice.
I am managing about one and a half ounces at a sitting and will aim for a small batch of 3oz bags .
Tissy thanks for that incredibly kind offer - my sister in law has very kindly offered to give me a couple of bags of frozen EBM to use if my own stash is insufficient so it looks like we will be okay.
Actually I am really looking forward to a night of uninterupted sleep
Pupuce he drank happily from a bottle a few times when he was about a month old but have not tried since (and don't intend to ) but I am not worrying myself about it EBM is all that will be available on Friday night

Jasper, I cut out my ds's night feeds at 1 week short of 6 months. He had been exclusively breastfed on demand until then which basically consisted of a feed approx every two hours day and night. And I decided that I was ready for a full night's sleep. It only took 2 nights to get him to sleep through the night without waking up crying for a feed. I sent my dh in to comfort him the first 2 nights when he woke up looking for a feed and he got the message really quickly that the milk wasn't happening anymore at night. You might want to take the opportunity of being in hospital to cut out the nightfeeds. Your ds is certainly old enough to not need nightfeeds and it's kind of the perfect opportunity. You won't even be there to hear the crying....let dad deal with it. Good luck.

Glad to hear you are having success. Hope the old tootsies don't give you too much discomfort ( understatement do you think). Will it add to the weight loss
All the best for Friday.

Thanks Sofia. I confess I am looking forward to letting dad deal with it.
I think it will be good for them both

Thanks again everyone.
I ended up staying two nights in hospital but had sufficient ebm to keep ds happy in my absence. Needless to say he slept far better/woke up to feed less for his dad than for me!

Two nights' peace, brilliant! Only joking, how are you feeling?

Demented, thanks for asking.
Very sore. (feet, not boobs )