2 1/2 wk old baby doesn't seem satisfied with my milk no matter how long/often he feeds. Help? (Long story)

[bananabump]

ds is 2 1/2 weeks old now, about a week or so ago his feeding started getting really demanding and erratic. Sorry this is long.

At first it was just at night, he'd feed for ages and fall asleep at the boob. I'd put him in his moses basket, he'd sleep for a few minutes then wake up crying for more milk. He went through this cycle all night one night, feeding about 11 times, we didn't sleep properly til about 8.30 in the morning, and then he slept in 3 hour stints for the rest of the day.

But now he's doing it during the day as well, just feeding and feeding until he falls asleep but waking up as soon as he's put down, and then crying for food again. He doesn't seem particularly satisfied apart from when he DOES sleep for a few hours and feeds when my boobs are fit to burst.

When he was screaming the other night and I'd been feeding him just constantly for hours and they felt totally empty, we gave up and gave him a bottle, and he downed it like he was ravenous. He was immediately so content and slept beautifully for about 4 1/2 hours. I feel almost mean for not being able to satisfy him like formula can.

Also, he was very jaundiced so he NEEDS fluids to flush the jaundice out. I've been trying to do that myself but I'm wondering if my supply is up to the job yet. I definitely want to breastfeed but the most important thing is that he isn't going hungry/suffering with the jaundice. He was 7lb 2oz at birth, at 2 weeks he was 6lb 7oz.

Last night I tried to get the best of both worlds by feeding him a bottle and also expressing for ages so my supply wouldn't be affected (got about 10mls total- pathetic) To be honest I feel like I know NOTHING about this whole thing. I don't know if I should be offering both breasts at a feed, or sticking to one until he lets go/falls asleep.

I tried called the NCT breastfeeding line but got through to some shitty bored sounding woman who made me feel like crap for giving him a single bottle feed (easy to say when you haven't got a desperately hungry newborn screaming at you)

I spoke to my health visitor about it last tuesday, she said it was normal, probably preparing for a growth spurt, and it would last very long. But it's been about a week now, I don't understand why he isn't getting enough.

It's making me wonder if it's a problem with the latch because although my nipples are no longer sore and bf isn't painful, I read somewhere that if he's truly drinking and not just sucking for comfort, you should be able to see his chin pausing between sucks. But baby seems to do several small fluttery sucks then an audible swallow, which (previous to reading that) I thought was okay. He is doing about 2 or 3 dirty nappies a day and a few wet ones.

I'm so confused, does anyone have any advice? right now I'm letting him feed as much as he wants and giving him formula when he won't settle and seems really hungry, but not usually more than 90ml once a day. I think I'll go mad otherwise, I'm not getting more than about three hours sleep a day at the moment, and even that is in half an hour stints.

Sorry this was such a long post!

Hi Trina, sorry to hear you're suffering too! Hope we both get sorted soon.

Well, saw the health visitor today, she said he'd put on 4oz since last tuesday so he's 6lb 11oz (7lb 2oz at birth) She said she was happy with that, they think 4oz is a good amount to gain in a week.

She said that she thought I was doing my best with the breastfeeding, and she didn't see the harm in giving the occasional bottle when he seemed very hungry and was feeding so often he wasn't allowing my milk a chance to "restock". After all, we need a life too, no point in being distressed all the time for the sake of not giving one bottle a day!

To be honest I've been so worried about ruining my supply when I give him formula that I've been pumping anyway while dp gives him the bottle. Still doesn't feel like I have quite enough for him (he was feeding on and off all afternoon with no sleeps imbetween)

The health visitor said that there was a local breastfeeding support group in a nearby village, and that there were a couple of health visitors in the area who were trained in breastfeeding support/help, he said she'd ask if any of them could pay me a visit and observe the latch etc although she said she said it probably wasn't the problem as I wasn't sore and he was having lots of wet/dirty nappies.

So in conclusion: Perhaps he's just a hungry horace?

By the way forgot to say- when I was having those headaches like you're having, I drank some rehydration fluid stuff (tastes rank) and made myself drink loads of squash. I soon felt better! And I'm forcing myself to sleep when he sleeps, which means I'm getting a lot more sleep these days! hth x

Been drinking lots today and headache gone.
HV came to me too and said exactly the same - one bottle a day for my sanity isn't going to harm - but as you say, the more I offer bf the more supply I should have.
Had a much better day today, have made him wait as long as possible - 2 hours min - had a few stressful hours trying to keep him quiet but he's fed better for it!
Also hv weighed him - 9lb 5oz!! 8lb 13oz at birth. Think he's gaining ok!

banana - great that the weight is heading in the right direction! And good news that someone will come and have a look at the attachment for you.

To be honest, I am not sure how well-informed the HV is...
"feeding so often he wasn't allowing my milk a chance to "restock", " is what she told you, and this is such a common misunderstanding. The more frequently a baby feeds, the more rapidly milk is made. That's how it works. She doesn't seem to know this

She also said "after all, we need a life too, no point in being distressed all the time for the sake of not giving one bottle a day! " - that's a different issue, and one for you to weigh up, and sometimes, giving formula can indeed help with the pressure and distress.

I hope things continue to be better for you.

Hi tiktok, just thought I'd let you know that a breastfeeding co-ordinator/health visitor popped over today to help me, she had a look at how he was latching on and said he wasn't opening his mouth wide enough so he was actually only getting the nipple and none of the areola (sp?) so she said it was possible he was only getting the foremilk that had collected, and that might be why he's not putting on much weight (I spose it's like living on copious amounts of skimmed milk)

Anyway she was really helpful and nice, put me in touch with some local bf groups etc. The only thing is, I'm really finding it hard to get him to open his mouth wide enough.

To provide you with far too much information (sorry) I have to bf using the football hold with him supported on cushions as my boobs are big but very spaniels-earsy! He has a voracious suck and makes a wild lunge at anything which approaches his mouth, while his mouth is still almost shut! So I can't really see what I'm doing because his head is eclipsed by boobage.

I'm hoping it'll get better with practice. In the mean time just bought some "more milk plus" tincture from breastfeeding heaven, and keeping up with the fluids and porridge. Determined to ditch the topups within the next couple of weeks! If only because I'm lazy and hate making up feeds lol

Banana,
Have you tried Hand Expressing until you milk starts to flow then "teasing" him with it? By "teasing" i mean drip the milk into his mouth, touch his nose with you nipple and rub you nipple around his mouth etc until he is properly opening wide and rooting for it.. then attach him on..

Haven't tried doing that but I will, thanks for the tip! I've been trying all day to get him to latch on better but it's really tricky. I do feel like I'm producing more though recently, which has to be a good thing

I hope you can get to a bf clinic or see a bf/lactation consultant who can really spend some time with you and observe him feeding and getting latched. More than once.

Thanks expat, luckily I've just found out my health visitor is a bf co-ordinator too so I'll be seeing her on tuesday, by which time if I'm still struggling with the latch, I'll ask again. I've come to the conclusion that I've just got crap boobs! lol

It really, really helped me to have someone observe a few times. DD2 wasn't opening her mouth wide enough and I wasn't getting the nipple in and aimed properly fast enough so whilst she was getting something, she wasn't maximising it.

A few hours with a bf counsellor could really improve things or a few sessions at a clinic with some more experienced feeders and bf trained clinicians can make a world of difference.

Sounds like exactly the same problem we're having, I spose if the hv can't help I might see if the NCT has anyone locally who could advise. There IS a local bf support group which might be worth joining too (how many more people will I have to show my norks to before this gets sorted out??)

Hi bananabump, had to reply when you mentioned your boobs! Mine are very similar and i had to use the football hold for about 3 months until dd was big enough for me to use cradle hold. (still feedng her now at nearly 15 months!)
She never wanted to open her mouth wide and i found it helped if i sort of squashed my boob a bit to get the maximum amount in there when she latched on. it's really hard work to keep taking them off if the latch isn't right but it's worth it. This crazy constant feeding should calm down a bit in a few weeks. Keep at it, you're doing brilliantly. The breastfeeding group will help a lot. I never found my HV to have much of a clue about breastfeeding but if you can find a lactation consultant or other mums then you'll get the help you need. Great news about the 4oz weight gain. Keep us posted.

aaw thanks pampam, I really appreciate you posting from first hand experience! Good to know it worked out for you, with similar boobs. I went off wearing a bra when I was a student and a bit of a hippy type, regretting it now since they've migrated south for the winter!

I think I might join the group, it'd be a doubly good idea since I don't know any other mothers either. (first one in my group of friends to have a baby)

I was even holding my boob wrong, banana, so I was more breast to baby rather than other way round. I was also tensing up my shoulders and holding my breath as I got her on, hadn't even realised it until the counsellor noticed.

Also at the clinics they can show you different ways to hold your baby and watch you do it so you can get the hang of it, including lying down, which can come in handy.

Another football holder here!

The group i joined was really good, i was also the first in my circle of friends to have a baby, it's really hard to meet new people when your hormones are crazy and you've had no sleep but it's brilliant when you realise that everyone else is feeling the same and you can all help each other. the friends i made at bf group are still friends now and the support is great, it can give you that extra bit of energy to keep going if you can get there once a week.

Hi bananabump

Breastfeeding can be a total nightmare in the early weeks. Your post sounds no different to that of so many mums that come to the breastfeeding group at my Surestart.

It can be so, so hard at the start but as long as you are getting your baby latched on properly and feeding when you think you need to - it will get better.

It's true that babies around this age feed little and often. Their tummies are tiny and now is the time that they can have growth spurts which make them seem to want to feed even more. This is hard but it will build up your milk supply.

Did you know that the one thing that can stop your letdown reflex (when the milk get's going at the start of the feed), is stress. An excellent health professional that I know was giving a mum some support on the phone. The mum was saying it felt like she had no milk, she couldn't express any etc. As she calmed her down, the milk literally began to flow. So, when you feel yourself getting that way, just let your body relax.

Don't think that formula is more satisfying than your milk. That's the wrong way of looking at it in my view. It is a totally different substance and composition to breast milk and is more difficult to digest. Just be aware of formula interfering with your milk supply and artifically stretching your babies tummy, making him less satisified by breastfeeds.

You are already doing so well. It does get easier, you just need to ride out these horrible early weeks and the rest will come with time and experience as you learn to read your baby and try different things.

Try and find your local team of BF support people via your HV, maybe go along to a BF group if there is one. It can really help to know how normal it is to go through what you are at the moment.

Don't rule out co-sleeping either. If you can mange to BF your baby lying down and read up on safe co-sleeping - there you have a way that women have coped with BF new babies for milenia!!!

Be calm and determined and trust yourself, your body and your instincts.

Thanks pastalady, some great advice there! I think the main benefit of formula is just knowing it's there, so one way or another my baby won't go hungry. Knowing that has lowered my stress levels markedly.

I love co-sleeping, J slept next to me last night and he was so quiet and content for hours, rather than the crap broken sleep I normally get with him in the moses basket. But as I said, dp doesn't like it much as he says he has no room. I find feeding on my side too difficult as I have to support my boob to stop it covering baby's nose (I know midwife said babies noses are squishy and designed to cope but he really can't breathe when my boob is up against his nose) but because I'm so comfy I'm falling asleep and forgetting to support it, so I get fed up.

Hi bananabump

Lack of bedspace can be an issue. In the end, we loved co-sleeping so much - it improved our sleep and how we coped so much that we went out and bought a superking bed from a factory seconds shop. You can also buy special co-sleeping cots that attach to your bed with adjustable height levels so you can feed your baby lying down and then put him in his own little space next to you. I'm almost due my second and that's what we've bought. You can get them for £150 new off the web or cheaper second hand from ebay.~

I am desperate to be able to BF again and to my co-sleeping makes so much sense, it's worth the money to setup like like that. I look back and it seems mad that I spent so many months getting out of bed to feed my baby in a chair, disturbing both of us. Millions of mums around the world today and since the dawn of time have co-slept with their hungry newborns and had much more sleep and contentment from their babies for it!

I know what you mean about formula. I remember feeling the same. This is what I mean about trusting the process and your body. As long as you are getting those wet nappies and your baby is putting on weight - some weight (there is talk of scraping those growth charts because they are so unfair on BF babies) that's all you need to do.

Good luck and glad to hear your've managed to get some sleep!

One last thing,

It can be so, so reasuring to get a few BF people to watch yo feed and check your latch and that throughout the feed the baby is slipping down the nipple. It made me feel allot more confident too. It's amazing how much better a bit of reassurance can make you feel. HV's or your team of BF support people will normally come around your house and do that for you.

BB, Just read your original post:

"I tried called the NCT breastfeeding line but got through to some shitty bored sounding woman who made me feel like crap for giving him a single bottle feed (easy to say when you haven't got a desperately hungry newborn screaming at you)"

A personal plea - please seriously consider complaining (if you haven't already done so) as Tiktoc suggests as it sounds like we have both talked to the same person: identical description with shitty bored sounding woman making you feel like crap for single bottle feed etc. I ended up crying more after the call a few weeks ago and almost gave up BF at this time (though still BF now at 10 weeks, taking it all day by day). If I'd known at the time that I could complain I would have done but can no longer remember when I called.

Sorry for going away from the original reason for your post - I did think a while before posting this message. Pleased things are going better for you now.

Hi guys...quick update! Ds is now almost 4 weeks old, in the past week he has put on 9oz, so he's 7lb 4oz, finally past his birth weight! yay!!!!!!