Difficulty establishing feeding (day 5) looking for advice to keep my nerve.

[Lyra75]

I'd be really grateful for any advice that anyone has on those early days of breastfeeding, especially those who have done so with larger breasts! Sorry for the long post.

I've just been discharged from hospital with a gorgeous 5 day old baby boy, but the breast feeding isn't going so well. I don't think I was very well helped in hospital. On day 3 his weight had gone down by 10.7% and so they advised top up with EBM and formula. I feel guilty now that I agreed so readily, but I was still a bit shell shocked from a 48 hour labour followed by an emergency section that when they suggested he might be losing too much weight I just agreed. They also kept mentioning the size of my breasts like it was a big problem, not to mention fairly demoralising when you're not feeling so great about your shape anyway!

We're now home and I realise that I don't really know what I'm doing at all and am worried that we might not crack this. At the moment I'm feeding 3 hourly (often having to wake him up), I'm not sure how well he's feeding (if any). Then he has top up EBM (this has just really been the past 24 hours, I think getting home relaxed me enough) and then some formula.

I'd be really grateful if you have any advice. Thanks.

Tortoise,what staggeringly shit advice.
Every 6/8 hours?
What numpty told you that?

i was given lots of conflicting advice with my first baby and was convinced i was doin it all wrong as he did not seem to gain weight at first. I was never advised to give top ups, but would probably have done so with ds number 1 as it was all so overwhelming to me (no support from hospital)Carry on with feeding three hourly (which is what i did with ds number 2) which worked much better for me. It will work itself out in the end. Lots of rest helps too!

You are doing great! Do not give up! lots of luck

Lyra - I found it incredibly hard to BF my LO to begin with. I have enormous boobs (went up to a 34 K when 1st BF'ing) I couldnt get on with any of the suggested positions, and found it easier to lay LO on a pillow across my lap support his head with one arm and hold my nipple in place with the other hand. I lasted doing this for 5 months (only stopped BF recently). Try different positions until you find one which suits you.
You really are not alone in finding it difficult to start BF'ing. People dont realise its an actual skill you have to acquire. Fingers crossed for you x

moondog - that would be the 'breastfeeding support nurse' on the ward in the hospital. Ds1 had nothing to drink for nearly 48 hours because they couldn't get him to suck. Rather than decent support they went through a whole palaver of blood sugar tests every 2-3hours - poor baby had blood taken from his head 3 times during labour, and about 9 heel prick tests, all to show nothing wrong

My norks are mahoosive too and my third baby had trouble latching on, as his mouth was tiny. It took about 3 weeks to establish feeding.

Just let him suckle when he wants to and as long as you continue to do this you will have enough milk for him.

I spent time sitting topless with DS2 in his nappy so we could get lots of skin to skin contact. I would hide away in a dark room and just snuggle with him, skin to skin, so he could find the breast when he wanted it.

BTW I am 38g and I think it is slightly more tricky for women with "ample" boobs to find comfortable positions. I feed my babies using a feeding cushion, which i find really helps.

Good luck

Tortoise,even a toilet cleaner would have worked out that a tiny baby needs a tad more feeding opportunities than that!

Did you complain?

moondog - I didn't - I wouldn't have known where to start (either what to complain about first, or who to) - I had bad advice from the moment I went in to be induced, went into labour spontaneously, but STUDENT MIDWIFE decided to do induction anyway, to the moment I was discharged with a 'he's had 2 feeds, he'll be fine'.

Sorry for hijack - I really regret not being more confident about everything, not least the feeding, but you do kind of expect them to know what they're doing.

You've got some great advice here, lyra. Just to add that my ds was mixed fed for the first four weeks, excl bf thereafter We had the added problem that after several days of topping up he started to refuse bf - but even that I managed, with patience and a bloody-mindedness that topped ds's , to turn around.

UIf you can feed 2-hourly, that would be good. Expressing is not as efficient as a baby at getting milk out, but if you do express, try and fit in a couple of sessions at night (sorry) too. I bf ds whenever he cried, without wondering whether there was another reason

One thing I was told (by a bf helpline) was not to give EBM and formula at the same feed - save up your EBM instead until you have enough for a whole feed and give formula until then - as formula straight after EBM interferes (more) with the protective effects of the bm.

Can't help on the breast-size thing, as my norks are negligible (seriously - am 35 weeks pg, and still bf ds, and even now am not having to wear a bra), but a feeding cushion/pillow might well help.

Hang in there and good luck

What I used to do with the EBM was to express immediately before the feed, off one side only, then give ds2 the other side to feed, then the side that I'd expressed from, then the EBM that I'd expressed iyswim.

The problem with not giving formula and b/milk at the same feed is that you're then essentially missing a b/feed, which is vital for stimulating the supply I would have thought. And the formula really knocks them out, so they don't feed for still longer.

Never too late Tortoise.Tiktok always urging us to make our feelings known.Otherwise some other poor woman gets the same crap spun to her.

This was 6 years ago though moondog - and tbh, I think through talking to the b/feeding assistants attached to our mws, the whole regime has changed anyway.

Lyra - just re-read your thread title - keeping your nerve is EXACTLY what it's all about - have confidence in yourself and your baby.

Good luck Lyra.I remember how overwhelmed I felt by it all. I hated bfing for weeks. I got no support in hosp. it hurt like hell, I couldn't get comfy etc etc. I was a 32J at the time and I agree larger norks are difficult to deal with when the baby is so tiny. The nose to nipple thing is great if you can actually see the nipple.

1st - don't suffer in silence. Ring the specialists, they'll have helped peole in your situation before.

2nd - try not to put pressure on yourself. You will work it out together and in time you'll be a pro!

3rd - I found bfing lying down helped cos I wasn't trying to support baby while holding onto my breast and getting the nipple near her mouth. Also a v-shaped bbfing pillow helped enormously.

GOOD LUCK xxx

It sounds like you have had loads of great advice but imho:

Don't be scared to take baby off and relatch if you feel that your DS isn't latched on properly. Even if you keep having to do it and they are sceaming. When they scream they open their mouths wider i found and they i could 'bop' them on! Also a trick i learnt with DD that i didn't have the confidence to do with DS is the holding their necks with thumb and forefinger around back of neck and then when they really really open their mouths push them onto full areola bit. It took me a bit of time to get this right and it looks really awkward but it worked fantastically for me. i had to perservre (SP!) with taking her on and off sometimes to get it right. It takes a bit of practise but they need to learn just like you and you need to show them.

i often found in the first 2 weeks that i found it was easier to sit with no bra or top on as these just got in the way and strip baby down to just nappy and then try and feed. I also found that well meaning mother and MIL's were actually a pain the arse especailly when watching intently as i did it. My Mum really pissed me off they way she always gawped at my boobies! Relax in front of the TV helped alot also.

Also i fed DD whenever she wanted for the first 3 weeks at least. This was mainly every 1.5 - 2 hours and that worked really well in helping my milk come in. I also slept with DD and imo that was a real saver for me to.

drinking lots of water, eating lots of cake and big dinners that someone else has cooked for you.

Expressing after each feed to stimulate milk production really helped with DD also. I have had a real issue with supply of milk this time around and drinking, eating and expressing were my 3 BIG helpers!

Really good good luck and just keep coming to MN to ask if you need help. Have you got a breast feeding friend who can give you support?

just read hotcorsses post - def if in any doubt or worried ring the MV or specialist as a bit of 1 - 1 support could save you days of pain and frustration. I did this with DD and it just gave me the confidence to go on.

Just wanted to quickly add a few points as a fairly large-boobed lady who's only 2.5 weeks into breastfeeding her first baby:

My community midwife was a great help - do ask yours if she can advise or recommend any support groups. Her top tip to me when trying to get my sleepy LO latched on at 5 days with huge engorged boobs: "Everyone gets worried about the latch, but when you're just trying to get the baby to learn about sucking the best thing to do is just stuff the nipple in" - I know I was horrified at this advice because I'd done plenty background reading and I knew the principles of latch and positioning etc before LO was born, but in practice it's so different and once I put my worries about the perfect latch etc to one side and concentrated on getting him plugged in and sucking it was much easier from there onwards. I had to kind of pinch some of my nipple a bit so he had something to grab onto (also means you can express a bit of milk for them to taste), then brace my feet against something and let him chew away - once he learned how wide he had to open his mouth and he had a bit of help from me directing my pinched nip towards the roof of his mouth he sort of cottoned on and got going like a train. Once he knew what he was doing it was a thousand times easier for me to sort out the latch and make sure he was getting a proper feed. I think with bigger boobs the positioning is really important but shouldn't be at the cost of just getting baby plugged in and sucking to start with.

Just some observations from someone who got started by doing things the way you're not meant to!

I had loads of difficulty to start with and had to give EBM and top ups too.

It is difficult also with bigger boobs (mine are only a mere G cup though)

The midwives said always feed breast milk first for at least 20 minutes. Use loads of cushions aswell to get baby in a good postion and so you are not all hunched up and your shoulders are nice and relaxed. I did this and once home just fed breastmilk on demand (which was practically all the time)

It was soooo hard to start with but after about 6 weeks just became easier and I'm still feeding now at 18 months. It is really worth the effort now to keep going. You are doing so well!

Tortoiseshell, you are quite right - sorry, that prob wasn't quite clear - I meant don't give formula and EBM at same feed - of course she has to give BM (as in direct bf) at every feed - but if she gives, say at one feed bf then formula, then at the next one bf and EBM, instead of bf + EBM + formula at both feeds, at least one of those feeds is just with BM, IYSWIM.

I understand!!!

Good luck Lyra, I have huge boobs too so I know it can be difficult to bf. Try lying on your side with LO in bed (don't fall asleep!) - I found that easier. Support your boob with the other hand if sitting as well - helps to get it at the right angle. Ultimately, don't beat yourself up too much if the whole thing doesn't work out and you end up formula feeding. Yes, we all know breast is best, but also of paramount importance is the mental health of the mother. I was so worked up when bf didn't work with DD1, and so upset that I feel it ruined our precious first weeks. With DD2 I was so much more relaxed because I knew that formula was a possible option, and wasn't poison (!) that I ended up bf for much longer (11 months) than I thought I would. Best of luck x

Lyra - congratulations on the birth of your ds
and for feeding him yourself. You are doing great to be still bf. Have faith in your own body. Women of all shapes and sizes bf successfully but it can take a while to establish. I think they were a bit previous at the hospital to push supplementing when he had only lost 10% or so (unless he was v, v tiny??).

My first baby lost about 10% of her birthweight in hospital (I was in about 5 days like you) but I felt it had a lot to do with the v dry atmosphere there, as well as getting the hang of bf which is not easy. None of my 3 dc regained their birthweight before the age of 1 month and they all grew and flourished normally after that. Not every baby follows the charts.

Oh, I forgot this tip....say "Aghhhhh" with your mouth wide open..then when baby copies get as much of the boob in as possible. It bizarrely worked for us anyway.

What a difference a day makes! Thank you all for your advice - it really has made a huge difference already ! I contacted the NCT helpline last night and had a really supportive conversation with a counsellor. She was very encouraging. Then, a few hours later my DS seemed to wake up, work out what was happening and promptly choked on the breast milk - never thought I'd be happy to see a choking baby! Since then he has been feeding 2 hourly. When the community midwife came round this lunchtime and weighed him he has put on 8 ounces in 2 days. She was very supportive, thought that my top ups had been a negligible contribution to this and that it was mostly me. She advised we cut out the top ups now and see how it goes over the next 48 hours.

I am very grateful for all your advice - a relaxed mum does flow better it seems! So DS and I are hanging out (me literally!) experimenting with pillows and all your advice on positions. I know it's early days but I think that it might actually be possible - yeah!

It's wonderful to hear you sounding so positive.

Fabulous news - hope things continue to improve

Lyra, you rawk! I am so proud of your determination and strength considering all you've gone through. You make me want to train to be a breastfeeding counsellor so I can make sure that more folk get the support and advice needed for lots of us to make a success of breastfeeding. loads of love xxxx