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Infant feeding

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Original poster

Is there any option other than formula if a newborn wont feed and glucose levels are low?

69 replies

Dragonhart · 09/08/2007 13:29

Dsis in hospital after having cs due to her high bp. Baby born on tue and last night they said that as her glucose levels were low that she should have formula. Worried about dd, she did give her a bottle and then dd slept all night.

She really wants to bf but is there anything she can do if glucose levels are low?

OP posts:
Oblomov · 09/08/2007 14:56

Hunker, you are so helpful and informative. I learn such alot from you.
I had no idea that the threasholds were so low. I myself am practically hypo at 2.2 They insisted on giving ds formula, even though I was trying to establish breastfeeding.
I wish I knew then, what I know now, having learnt from you.

Oblomov · 09/08/2007 14:58

Sorry - hijack - Hunker - advised today, as a diabetic, no ortho k lenses for me. Very sad

hunkermunker · 09/08/2007 15:02

Babies have different levels, Oblomov - I was surprised when I first heard then bandying about figures with 2s in front, having struggled with mine when pg. Makes sense though, I guess.

Sorry re ortho-k lenses What a bummer Mine didn't work nearly as well when I was pg and had gestational diabetes - cornea too soft, I think

hunkermunker · 10/08/2007 00:58

How's your sister doing, Dragonhart?

ghosty · 10/08/2007 01:28

Dragonhart,
When I had DD she was a very big baby and gestational diabetes was suggested (although I had had a negative tests for it at 28 and 36 weeks)
The paed wrote in my notes that if DD had 3 consecutive heel prick tests of under 2.6 she should be given formula. The heel pricks were to be done 3 hourly through the night.
First test 2.9, second was 2.5 ... Then before the third test the MW turned up with a bottle of formula.
I went ballistic.
Had a huge row ... and won
If you want the details of the row I will happily supply them.
But my point is that the paed said 3 consecutive tests under 2.6

hunkermunker · 10/08/2007 01:32

Ghosty, I fought a similar battle.

at the midwife who made such a presumption for you!

mears · 10/08/2007 01:40

Our unit's policy is if blood glucose is less than 2.6, EBM should be given if the baby won't feed and recheck 1 hour post feed.

Personally I think 2.2 is fine. If the blood glucose is low on heel prick test the result is confirmed by taking a bigger sample from the heel and putting it through a blood analyser machine which is more accurate that the strips. The result often comes back in the normal range.

If formula needs to be given it is 10ml per kilo of baby's birthweight and it is given by cup to avoid nipple confusion.

Infact tonight I was helping a mum to try and breastfeed. Baby's sugars were actually fine but she would not feed. I helped her express 2ml colostrum which she was given by syringe.

Although medically the baby did not need formula, mum was exhausted post C/S which had to be done after GA and was getting concerned that baby had not fed for 24 hours. I supported her in her decision to give a cupfeed to hopefully help her relax to try again later without the pressure of worry.

mears · 10/08/2007 01:42

By she I meant female baby would not feed despite skin-to-skin, stroking her, cold cloth on hands etc. She just loved being cuddled into mum.

hunkermunker · 10/08/2007 01:54

Mears, I've emailed you

anonymousdr · 10/08/2007 01:57

I agree with mears about checking the result. Also, not a prob at this time of year,but if the baby's feet get cold and their circulation isn't great (which is common in newborns) you might get a wrong reading on the heelprick test.

A blood sample taken from a vein is more accurate in those cases. Not ideal because it means another needle for baby, but if the stakes are high it might help decide whether intervention is justified or not.

I've seen many babies have dodgy glucose tests intially which when checked turned out to be OK.

ghosty · 10/08/2007 03:02

Hunker ... it was one of the very few times in my life I have been truly angry.
I was stuck in bed (still couldn't move after C/S) - DD was in cot next to me. After I said no the MW walked towards DD with the bottle
I said something along the lines of "One more fucking step and I'll scream!"
She kept going and I pressed the call button twice (the emergency signal) which had two midwives sprinting to my room.
The original midwife was told that I was within my rights and she left in disgust. The next morning MY midwife arrived, when she was told the story she was fit to be tied she was so pissed off. She went and got the overnight notes and the cowbag midwife had written "Mother REFUSES to top up baby with formula despite Doctor's advice".

I discharged DD and me that morning and went into a private 'baby friendly' unit for 3 blissful nights with my little girl.

As you know, hunker, I had had a shit time with DS and bad advice caused me to give up early ... so NOTHING short of something life threatening was going to get in the way this time.

mears · 10/08/2007 11:20

I so admire you ghosty for standing your ground.

I could tell that the mum I was helping yesterday did not have that conviction and was getting really concerned her baby was starving. I reassured her she was fine and explained the consequences of giving formula but she wanted the cupfeed and I could see her relax.

Had I forced exclusive EBM, I think she would have thrown in the towel there and then. I hope her little DD has woken up and got the hang of it now.

ghosty · 10/08/2007 12:04

I owe it to you mears, and tiktok and the rest of mumsnet ...
I don't think hunker was around then but I am sure she would have been shouting from my corner too ...

dazedandconfunded · 10/08/2007 14:23

Mears - you are the voice of sanity! That is so absolutely how it is when your baby won't feed. Being able to give colustrum by syringe or ebm by cup, even by bottle, is such a relief. I was very close to throwing in the towel on one occasion, when a mw who would only accept gold-standard, direct bf left us exhausted after three continuous hrs of trying bfeeding in the middle of the night, with her ramming dd's head onto my nipple continually and knuckling her fircefully under the chin to make her swallow. DD (jaundiced)and I (medical Caesarian) were so exhausted. Though I had some ebm in the fridge, the mw insisted that only she could give it, by cup, and my dd must wait for her. She then went away for 2 hrs. DD was frantic by then, so was I, and if I had been able to find the key to the formula cupboard, I would have raided it.

Another, lovely mw was relaxed about ebm top-ups, and being able to keep things going this way meant that dd was on the breast about 50% of the time when we left hospital, and then we were able to chuck the expressing altogther.

Original poster
Dragonhart · 10/08/2007 20:12

Went to see dsis today and she is doing really well with the bfing. She said that she had just done a feed all by herself and was really chuffed when I got there.

She told me that they had had to prick her heal 4 times to get enough blood to do the test and my mum said that when the bf councillor was there in the early evening, she told the midwife that as she had had a bf since the 2.2 test while she was there, she did not need the formula, and my mum said that mw told her that hospital policy said she had to have a ff. Bf councillor insisted all was ok, then when my mum and bfc had gone, she told my dsis that she needed it. Dsis feeling terrible after cs and very emocional and on her own said ok.

Makes me so cross as there was no need. They did no more tests and her dd threw up the ff anyway (luckily all over the midwife who insisted) She is feeding fine now and looks great.

Sounds like it is something that happens quite often. I have to say that I got really sick of the midwifes stuffing my nipple into ds's mouth without showing me properlly what to do and luckily when I got to the end of my tether, a brilliant bfc helped me and within 10 mins all was so much better.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 10/08/2007 22:01

I'm so glad bfing's working - and SO angry with that midwife!

When your sister's feeling a bit stronger, she might want to get in touch with the hospital's Patient Liaison (PALS) service - there ought to be a Maternity Services Liaison Committee she can feed her experience back through, or it might be helpful to have a reflective session with the head of midwifery.

This is APPALLING practice and really needs to be challenged. There was no need to give formula, your sister had said she didn't want to, the BFC had said there was no need and since they didn't even do another sugar test, there was no follow-up to the formula to check it had "worked" anyway.

Good on your niece for chucking up on the midwife - DS2 meconiumed massively all over ignorant paed which made me chuckle too.

Congratulations on your niece and, once again, well done to your sis - she's a star!

Original poster
Dragonhart · 11/08/2007 22:21

Thanks again Hunker. I am going to wait til she is over the cs and out of hospital to suggest she complain (she has HELLP syndrome from the pre-eclamsia that led to the cs so has to stay in hospital).

Cheers xxx

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 11/08/2007 22:23

Any time, Dragonhart - I hope she's soon out of hospital and home - everything much easier then in many respects. How has today been?

Original poster
Dragonhart · 11/08/2007 22:30

Good. She seems to really have got the hang of it and said that some of the midwifes are really good and have helped her.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 11/08/2007 22:32

Brilliant

Post again if she needs help with her complaint - I hope she goes through with it. IME the MSLC like to hear stories like this - well, not like - but need, in order to improve things for other women.

3andnomore · 11/08/2007 22:36

aww dh and sil...I so can understand what your sil in going through..had an emergency C-section wiht my last one...and luckily I did not need advice of proffessionals at that time...not that it stopped them commenting of course in ways as....oh is he feeding again...to which I would answer...no...but he was awake so I latched him on anyway...and hohum, out of my 3 that one bfed for the longest

Original poster
Dragonhart · 11/08/2007 22:37

Will do xxx

OP posts:
sfxmum · 11/08/2007 22:42

i am very happy this seems to be working so well
just caught this thread and it it a nerve, sorry for the hijack

i had dd in 2005 at west mid hospital and it was a long labour, she spent the first night in SCBU and we stayed in hospital 4 nights

but anyway dd was not feeding, couldn't get a latch and i got zero help, on the second night they walked into my room and said that unless i wanted my baby to die i must give formula at once.
cue floods of tears and much anxiety.

eventually and with much help from dh we managed to get the BF going and it all improved once i was home.
2 yrs on and we still going strong

hunkermunker · 11/08/2007 22:47

sfxmum, that's appalling

hunkermunker · 11/08/2007 22:48

Clearly I didn't mean the fact you're still going strong - that's brilliant!