I'm a bit sick of something and I'd like you to help me...

[hunkermunker]

I'm pretty keen to support women to breastfeed [understatement]

Anyone like to ask me why?

Or perhaps you already know my reasons - want to tell me what they are?

Because I'm quite peed off with the "some breastfeeding evangelists, the fuckers" tone of posts after recent debate re formula advertising.

This foundation has just won government approval and is about to receive a load of money and a make-over.

Oh, wow - how interesting! It's just common sense, I think - and that's fab re funding!

keep doing what you're doing, we [I] need you and others like you.

Hunker I think your support (and others on Mumsnet) is fantastic.

I returned to work when my daughter was six months old but it was a mumsnetter who sent me details about what work should be providing to support me, and I then spent a further six months expressing milk at work so that my daughter was still drinking breast milk even though I wasn't with her. I stopped that at just over a year old but continued to feed in the morning and evenings until she was about nineteen months old as that felt right for us.

I haven't read the thread about advertising but I can imagine how heated it got. FWIW I dont know if banning advertising will help do anything other than reinforce in people who "failed" in breastfeeding that they "failed". I do think that there needs to be more support from health visitors, doctors etc etc to promote breastfeeding though.

I used to be totally against advertising formula but now I'm not sure because I'm not convinced that it actually has an effect on a mother's decision to ff or bf. I think it only affects which formula is chosen because most people fall into one of four camps; women who can't ever imagine bfing, ones who can never imagine ffing, ones who tried to bf but had to go reluctantly onto ff and those who happily do both. I can't imagine any advert which would persuade one woman to change camps.

I think what would be more useful would be a law that said certain messages of a certain size (i.e. large) had to be on every advert (like the cigarette packet ones). Perhaps the messages could say things like 'breastmilk is the perfect food for your baby, no formula milk can supply all the nutrients and other goodness available in breastmilk'. At least no-one can then claim they thought that formula was as good as breastmilk and the formula companies would, like it or not be funding breastfeeding awareness.

And without meaning to upset anyone (honestly), I think we have to get past this worry about offending people who feel guilty about not bfing. I've heard some horrendous stories on here about peoples' problems with bfing and why they gave up etc and I really feel for them but that shouldn't make people scared to even mention bfing in their presence. After all if you had lung cancer from smoking, surely you'd want others to learn from your experience even if it meant you having to painfully endure seeing those tv adverts that show the horrendous effects of smoking. Surely you'd want others to avoid your problems? (And just to clarify, I'm comparing problems with bfing with smoking NOT ff with smoking)

So carry on 'meddling' Hunker, I think you do a brilliant job of helping people on MN (and bearing in mind the crapness of the NHS in this subject area, a very necessary one).

MT, this was just posted on the formula advertising thread - I believe there's a drip-drip effect of formula advertising that creates a culture that's unsupportive for breastfeeding and this backs me up:

By Reallytired on Wed 08-Aug-07 13:17:12
I started the thread and I don't think formula should be banned. It would be good if Britain adopted policies on breastfeeding similar to Norway though.

Look at this link.

www.babymilkaction.org/pages/uklaw.html

"Breastfeeding rates in Europe

In countries where there is little or no advertising and where the hospital practices support mothers who want to breastfeed, breastfeeding rates are very high:Norway - 99%, Sweden 97%, Denmark 98%, Poland 93%, Rumania 91%, Czech Republic 92%.

In contrast, where the bulk of health information is provided by the baby food manufacturers, breastfeeding rates are very low: Ireland 31%, France 50%, Scotland, 50% (in some parts of Glasgow less than 7%)"

There is no point in actively bullying women in breastfeeding. They need information to make an informed choice. All that breastfeeding propaganda does is make bottle feeding mums feel sh$t. They have been set up to fail by poor ante natal classes, poor hospital care and after care.

given our recent emails 'unker - it does make me laugh somewhat when people suggest you are totally anti-formula/choice and all that jazz

But in those countries like Sweden etc, is advertising banned or do the companies just not bother advertising because they don't make many sales there anyway?

See I suppose I'm a bit of a cynic about advertising, I know it must work or companies wouldn't bother paying huge amounts of money for it but I just think that the advertising issue is one tiny part of the problem of low bfing rates in the UK (well actually, since there is no advertising at the moment, it shouldn't contribute to it at all).

I agree that non-bfing mothers should never feel guilty about their choice but I think that shouldn't stop you or others from stating the facts. To do otherwise is, I think genuinely unfair to those who don't know the facts and therefore cannot make an informed decision.

I'm not sure it's even advertising that influences people, it's the graphics on the tin that leapt out at me. I mix fed for a few weeks when my DD was very little because of apparent supply problems and when walking past the shelves of formula in the supermarket in my most vulnerable period, phrases like "omega 3 reinforced for brain development" and "added milk bacteria for even more immunoprotection" (I'm translating badly here) leapt out at me and made me wonder if formula was so bad after all. Of course in my objective moments I knew it was all a load of crap, but when feeling vulnerable I almost convinced myself that the stuff was better than my milk. Luckily I'm a stubborn cow (no pun intended), had excellent support, didn't give in and managed to ditch the formula forever, but I can just imagine someone with less support being taken in by the rubbish they write on their packaging.

BTW, here in Italy there is a health warning on the packets stating that breastmilk is best or baby and formula should only be given when breastfeeding has proved unsuccessful, but it is tiny, in characters the same size as the ingredient list, and we all know how small that is to put you off reading it!

QoQ

MT, there IS advertising in this country at the moment - infant formula cannot be advertised freely, but can still be advertised in professional journals and follow-on and growing up milk can be advertised on TV, in magazines, on billboards, etc.

And the formula companies often get round infant formula advertising regulations with wordings like "You've trusted SMA/Cow & Gate to take care of your baby, now onto the next step" with a pic of follow-on, with the clear implication being that you'll have already used their brand for your newborn.

People often end up saying on extended breastfeeding threads that they think it's unusual, because they don't see it much. People on boards from the wider world (I'm thinking of comments on a BBC board I saw the other day) aren't as enlightened as MNers and think that breastfeeding fullstop, even of small babies, is peculiar.

We are SO used to seeing images of bottles everywhere, from adverts to baby congrats cards to baby clothing to the Mothercare website (incidentally, I emailed them to ask them to change their "rooms for nursing mothers" photograph to a baby being breastfed, not one of a baby with a bottle and to their credit, they did), to baby feeding room signage - we are a LONG way from being a society where bfing is the first choice for the majority of mothers for any longer than the first couple of feeds and, IMO, stricter legislation for advertising this product would be a big step in normalising breastfeeding.

BUT it does need to be coupled with greater support for women because there's nothing worse than setting her up to think there's no reason she shouldn't be able to breastfeed and not giving her the support to be able to do so successfully.

well 'tis true -

Why are formula companies allowed to advertise in trade journals, isn't advertising .....advertising? Has anyone ever challenged it? Can we see what the adverts are like (I'm really curious to know what tack they use)?

Must admit all the follow on milk adverts have passed me by because once I made it to 6 months and knowing I wasn't going back to work any time soon, I thought I may as well carry on to a year.

Hunker - I am wholeheartly in agreement with what you said.

I just wanted to add something about this comment:
"Because I'm quite peed off with the "some breastfeeding evangelists, the fuckers" tone of posts after recent debate re formula advertising"

As you rightly pointed out, all other things being equal, breastfeeding is best for mum and baby. Therefore a considerable number of us ff mums feel a degree of guilt about our "choice".

As such, I think some people are already on the defensive, and perceive criticism where there is none.

You also note that the country in general has a culture unsupportive towards breastfeeding mums. Again, I agree.

But it's worth noting that in some pockets of society (eg the slightly chi-chi area of London very near to where I live, and hence where I attend mother and baby things), it is openly frowned upon to ff. So again, lots of ff-ers are used to being critised, and are already expecting it any time this issue is raised.

anyway, keep up the good work - if I have another, I'll know whom to tap up for advice .