Apologies if this is long but on cusp of abandoning b feeding and need help

[georgiebs]

I feel very anxious and under a huge amount of pressure to make a success of breastfeeding second time round.

I had my second DS last saturday. My previous experience with DS1 was of bfeeding til he was 4 weeks at which point we were hospitalised as he had lost way too much weight - the HV had failed to see this although I had been extremely anxious that he wasn't satisfied by my milk.. When we came back from hospital - which was a very upsetting experience as you can probably imagine - oh the guilt and the disappointment to be told a) that DS1 was 'starving' and b) that I had no choice but to give him formula - Anyway, at home I expressed and bfed and gave him formula like a mad thing - he quickly started to gain weight - and is now a lovely healthy 25 month old. I managed with the help of accupuncture and extreme perseverance to keep bfeeding ( along with formula) til he was 9 months old.

So, my new baby was weighed on Thursday and had only lost 150g but by then due to my poor positioning my nipples had started to become very cut and by this morning I was crying my was through our feed. I am suddenly feeling very worried that my supply is insufficient too, as DS2 has started crying post feed in a way that is not about discomfort. My DH last night when he could see I was really upset suggested ( very gently, he was really supportive last time with DS1) giving DS2 a bottle, which we did. I am in agony during feeds despite Lansinoh, cabbage leaves and paracetamol - and taking 9 fenugreek capsules a day - but still, the feeding is definitely worse than giving birth. Has anyone got any thoughts on what I could do? Sorry if this is a confused and b rambling. It's how I feel. The weird thing that is breastfeeding has suddenly come back to me with its perplexing mix of the physical, psychological, emotional and cultural pressures!! Thanks any mumsnetters, I am going to try and get to see breastfeeding counsellor on monday of course.

hi georgie. congratulations on the birth of your ds2. i had my ds2 two weeks ago

have very few wise words i'm afraid but wanted to post to give moral support. you've arranged to see a bf consellor and that's the best thing you can do i suspect. it may be all down to the latch, positioning, etc - i suffered for the first few days but if you're in that much pain still then help is needed

good luck x

I'm so sorry it's so tough for you - and blimming well done for going so long with your ds1. I had a big struggle establishing bf with my ds, so I know something of your feelings, but no cut nipples or pain, so I can't imagine what it's like for you and not sure I can help you. How about one of the bf helplines? Their numbers are definitely on MN if you search.

georgiebs - you have already identified that you possibly have problems latching your DS correctly.

Perhaps this site may help you.

Do not panic too soon, I always got sore nipples initially which got better. You are aware of the problem and just need support to correct it.

When you latch DS on, take a deep breath and slowly count to 10. If the pain has not gone by then you need to reposition him, don't let the feed go on.

Something you could try is some ice in a plastic bag - put that on your nipple to numb it just before feeding. The coldness can slow the initial milk flow though.

Try and avoid formu;a just now if you can. If you do feel that you need the break, try and express milk to make up for the lost feed.

You have done the right thing by planning to get help on Monday. HTH.

Congratulations Georgie! My DS2 is 3 weeks old and BF has only just started to get easier. It turns out we had thrush, although I couldn't see any of the signs in his mouth (white flecks) - but it was agony for me - my nipples were just SO painful when feeding.

Good luck, we can all empathise with you, especially during the night when it all seems too much

It does sound like a latching on problem, which may also mean DS is not getting it properly which would explain the crying rather than supply. It's hard to help online, a bf counsellor will be much better in person. Until the could you try putting DS on your chest and letting him find the nipple himself (he may need a bit of support in the crook of your arm). We tried this with DD when she was 3 weeks old, she complained a bit but kept moving herself and sucking until she found the nipple and then latched on perfectly. It still hurts a little at first, but more in a baby resting heavily on your tender boob than needles coming out of yor nipples pain

Just get into bed propped up on lots of pillow, get some skin-to-skin contact and let him feed.

Good luck, we are only 6 weeks on so I still remember acutely this early stage, crying and swearing through every feed! Can only say that regular trips to the bfing support group and sheer stubboness has helped us finally crack it. In my limited experience bfing is the most emotionally and physically draining thing I have done, but hopefully it will be the most rewarding too.

Keep on trucking, you will get there!

Thanks so much all of you, making me cry reading them and realising I am feeling really terrible about this. I will definitely look at the site Mears and try your suggestions, will let you all know how I get on. THANK YOU

Very many congratulations on the birth of your ds2. You have my complete sympathies. I gave birth 12 weeks ago to my first dc and had horrendous problems with establishing bf, not a supply issue though as that was epic from day 1. I had weals on my nipples which bled when I tried to feed. I spent most of each feed sobbing- you are right, it was worse than labour pains- and even worse because I was hanging onto dd's head to keep her latched (v fussy feeder) I had to keep saying 'relax relax relax' to myself or I would have crushed her head in reaction to the extreme pain. I eventually had to find something to heal my nipples or I would have given up. Lansinoh and cabbage alone didn't work and a friend gave me some gel impregnated pads to wear for half an hour which aided healing, the rest of the time I sat with my top and bra off to allow the air to heal my nipples. I fed from only one breast for most of each day to allow the other to heal, expressing off it regularly to prevent engorgement. This too increased my supply to ridiculous proportions. I used the position that hurt the least- clutch hold or under the arm like a rugby ball in laymans terms- and after healing continued to favour the breast that dd was better at using and today still do two feeds on the right to each single feed on the left. Finally I saw a cranial osteopath who agreed with me that dd had problems on one side because of her birth (stuck in birth canal for 6 hours with a twisted head and neck). She is getting better and better at feeding on her 'bad' side with his help. Feeding is no longer painful and I actually love doing it. It took 6 weeks for me to even approach a feed without that sinking feeling. Finally, I didn't use them but nipple shields may help you. I know they're in the boo hiss territory for some people but for short term use you may find they help enormously, especially while you are healing.

Sorry I can't help with supply issues as I have the opposite problem to you and could feed an army.

Good luck to you.

Just sympathy and good wishes

just hang in there until you can see the counsellor, keep hassling until you get the support you need

Hi Georgiebs,

I found the breast feeding network was really helpful. Especially as they have drop ins to go to so not only do you set information and support but you get to talk to other mums too.

www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk

They kept me going when I nearly gave up a number of times when DS wasn't gaining enough weight.

Also these websites are good too. One has some links to Dr Jack Newmans videos clips of latches and babies feeding.

www.drjacknewman.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=42
www.kellymom.com

Hope these help and hope it gets easier.

Hi, I thought maybe this website might help www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/ I use to cry everyday when I started breastfeeding and wanted to give up, but I phoned someone from BFN and then probably called about 2/3 times a day after that asking all sorts of questions and tips. They were really wonderful. Hope it helps x

Hi GW where you been we miss you on post natal.

Georgie I feel your pain I spent the first 2 weeks of my DS life crying everytime he latched on my nipples were cracked and bleeding. It turns out he had a tongue tie which has subsequently been fixed and made feeding much better.

My DP used to help me position my DS in the first couple of weeks and if it still hurt after the first 30 secs I would take him off and start again.

I am sure your supply is fine - think that is something we all worry about unless you are blessed to have squirting boobs. I worry about my supply all the time and we are now 9 weeks in and I have a healthy gaining wait DS so obviously nothing wrong with supply but I still worry.

Be proud of yourself for trying to BF if you are really struggling express some out and cup or bottle feed you bub with it and that way you can give your nips a rest.

Good luck to you remember we are here to support you no matter what decision you decide to make.

Just to encourage you it is probably just a poor latch it is excrutiating painful I always needed help from the counsellors/infant feeding advisors plus trips to the cranial osteopath to help release the pressure in their jaws , one visit there made all the difference too - mine just never opened their mouths very wide until after cranial treatment - big babies and rapid 2nd stages not a good combination!

Keep going it will get better, hope you get the help you need soon.

Georgie, can you not find a midwife/bf counsellor at your nearest hospital or birth unit? I found them much more helpful than the helplines - if they're not busy you can just go in and see them regardless of the time of day/night.

remember - what you're trying to do is hard, and both of you have to develop the skill so it will take a little time. good luck, good luck, good luck

hi i dont know if anyone has mentioned this, but the cabbage leaves are for breasts that are engorged and very full, and for women who want to reduce breastmilk supply, so it contradicts to take fenugreek (to boost milk and fill boobs) AND cabbage leaves. If you felt suppply is low, it would be disastrous to put cabbage leaves on your breasts, if you see what i mean, and they do nothing for cracked nipples either.

Have you tried mother mates or chicco gel pads? they worked a treat for my nipples and thanks to them i was breastfeeding pain free from 3 days .

Hi - congratulations on your new arrival. Just wanted to add words of support - my ds1 was hopeless at feeding to start with and dropped from birth weight 9lb 8oz to 7lb 12oz at 10 days old. He was admitted to hospital and I was given a breast pump to stimulate supply. By this time my nipples were shredded to bits!

Once there was more milk available he could feed more easily and I ended up breast feeding till 7 months with no further problems.

Good luck

My nipples were cut to bits and so painful it took my breath away. A 'Breast mates' counsellor suggested the 'rugby hold' as my nipples are almost under my armpits! This worked much better.
If unlike me, you feel able to invest the time, I guess persevere, particularly with pumping.

hi georgie you have my sympathy and my admiration for persevering. having once had blood blisters on my nipples, the midwife suggested rubbing breastmilk on them. as baby unlatches any milk that is left at the end of your nipple, rub into sores, and then allow to airdry (obviously when your at home [big grin]).

sore nipples arise when baby is not latched on properly as baby will be inhaling air around the nipple if they dont have a proper seal.

experiment with different positions and try getting your LO latched on before they become ravenous, as the hungrier they are the less patient they are to wait for you to get comfortable etc.

i hope this helps and good luck to you honey!!

how are you getting on georgie?

Georgiesbs, congratulations on the birth of your ds and sorry you're struggling, my nipples were sore for weeks with dd and they couldn't say it was latch probs or anything, I am very fair though so I think it was that not helping. Anyhow am expecting in dec and going to buy these very soon www.breastfeedingheaven.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2 they are meant to be excellent for quick healing if that's part of the problem. HTH a bit and that things settle down soon