breastfeeding: she said 'i'm being sliced with fine razors'. please help my friend.

[rainbow83]

hi, my friend who has a 10 day old baby has posted this on another forum, she allowed me to reproduce it here:

Here is the best description I can give.

''It peaks when he latches on. It feels like I'm been sliced with fine razors, then it calms down. Then everytime he sucks, the pain starts again. Once he's off, I feel so sensitive, and it kind of feels like prickling in my breasts. My nipple is cracked and grazed (I suspect this started at the hospital since I was really clueless and the midwives latched him on for me, not bothering to show me exactly how to do it).

This is how I'm latching him on: In the cross cradle potions, nipple to nose, wait till he open wide than bring him in close, once he's latched on I make sure his lips aren't pursed and are 'out'. Still hurts. The pain lessened but it's starting to get worse again (it's not thrush). ''

Please, please can anyoone advise.
i havent been able to watch her bfeed as she is in australia. I'm really distraught for her- i think the prickling sounds like mastisis, as i had it before and thats how it felt. does anyone agree it might be mastisis? any tips appreciated. cheers.

The only thing I can think is thrush, cause thats exactly how it felt when i had it.
How is she sure it isn't?

dunno, i'm going to send her a mesage asking her.

I'm the same as gordieracer, that sounds exactly like my experience with thrush, so I can't think what else it could be. Over to the experts - maybe she could call a helpline? The NCT were a godsend when I was in pain.

NCT breastfeeding line: 0870 444 8708

Is she being supported by community midwives? I called them for help a lot during those difficult early days and, once the dreaded thrush was gone, they helped me with different positions. The rugby tackle one worked for a while and after a few days, it was easier for me to do it cross cradle.

i would say thrush and get herself to a GP for her and baby to be treated.

I had this
wasn't thrush , some people just find feeding really painful , can be to do with the latch.
I used nipple protecters - like latex coverings. Saved my breastfeeding - used for 3 weeks and then went on to feed till a year old.

I felt like Ds was chewing glass on my boobs at the beginning of each feed for a couple of weeks, but it went away after 2-3 weeks. It only ever lasted a few minutes though then he settled into the feed. Some of the stuff I'd read said to expect this, so I got the MW to check my latch and persevered. I did use lansinoh cream to help with the cracked nipples until I'd got used to it. I've read differing opinions on this though, some people say it's better to let them dry off with some milk squeezed out and rubbed into them to air-dry - which I did progress to and it got much better. - Just thought I'd post this incase it turns out to be neither thrush or mastitis - it does get better!

For about 4 weeks even when I thought I was latching on properly it was still hurting like she describes. I could see what I was doing wrong but obviously something.

Don't much advice except can she get to a bf support group. Also, if it hurts, get her to keep delatching and latching back on again until it doesn't hurt. Not sure what I did to get it right, just sheer bloody mindedness and 6 weeks on it finally doesn't hurt!

Tell her it WILL get better!

It definately isn't Mastitis. I have now had Mastitis 6 times and it is worse than giving birth.. she would be crying with the unbearable, contineous pain

I would advise her to get a set of Silverette or a 2 Silverlon Pads As these would releive cracked nipples almost instantly and completely heal them within a day or two..they have also been known to clear thrush From personal experience - they are the best healing thing on the market that i have found. Another link was posted with details about them from bookthief

Please get her to call one or all! of the supporter lines and hang in there. It will get better very soon and is very worth it

The Breastfeeding Network (BFN) - Supporter Line 0870 900 8787 - The service operates from 9.30am to 9.30pm every day of the year.

La Leche League Great Britain - 0845 120 2918

National Childbirth Trust - 0870 444 8708 - 9am to 6pm, seven days a week.

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers' - 0870 401 7711 - Open every day from 9.30am to 10.30pm

I would add to those who suggested thrush. I had this with dd1, and the pain you describe. It is quite difficult to diagnose, but once I had treated it with oral gel for the baby and cream on the nipples, it went away fairly quickly.

I think if you have a tendency to get thrush, the antibiotics used after birth can trigger it.

I had similar pain but it wasn't thrush just very sensitive skin. it did improve though over time but had me in floods of tears and screaming in pain for a couple of months. I don't know what it was but I tried everything to heal my nipples which helped and I suspect she should go down this route and maybe use the nipple shields to help reduce the pain until the soreness and cracks heal.

determination, i told her to buy the silverette cups / pads. However she lives in australia, do you know if they sell them or ship there? I think she needs them asap.

I am a bit puzzled about one or two things in your post though- how can you say it is 'definitely not mastisis'- ! Don't you think a doctor needs to examine her breasts to rule that out? the other thing, dont you think that the sensation of 'being sliced finely by razors' says it all, i think i'd be howling in pain if i was being sliced!

I have had mastisis over and over again with dd1, AND breast abscesses which were surgically removed under general anaesthetic. I'd say the pain she described sounds similar.

i've asked her about the thrush and she hasn't replied yet. keep posts coming.!

i have had mastitis 6 times and *NEVER felt like i was Being sliced with fine razors from my experience it felt like a huge amount of pressure with undescribable constant agonising pain.

OK, i hold my hands up and apologise. My wording was wrong . It would have read better if i said "It certainly does not sound - from the description, to be mastitis. Purely because the pain doesn't Usually come and go. Mastits is generally an agonising pressure type of Hot pain and during/after a feed the pain lessens slightly as though the pressure has been released. The breast would be hot to feel and very blushed looking. Also, occasionally the sking will peel from the breast as a result of the heat (mine did this on 2 occasions). From the description given, i would say that more fits the description i would give for the badly cracked/gash i had on my nipples - the pain was bad enough for me to hold my breath and bring tears to my eyes.. but not as painful as Mastitis were i was uncontrollably crying to the extent of loosing my breath - whilst my whole body shook with the pain.

I couldn't confirm if breastfeeding heaven ships internationally as i am in the Uk too. I guess the only way to find out is to try..

Felt like that for me with dd1. For some people it just is excrutiatingly painful for days or weeks. Lasted two weeks for me. I cried a lot.

I think you should let her know there is a possiblilty it might just be painful (ie no underlying illness or poor latch). SHould obv look into other things as well.

If she doesn't think it's thrush (presumably she's been checked/swabbed if she's sure) then it maybe is just bad nipple damage/poor latch. The prickling could be due to sensitised/exposed nerves.

I would certainly suggest to her that see a breastfeeding consultand re: latch but also get a swab taken from her nipples to check for infections. My initial nipple damage (over the first week) didn't get better until I had a course of antibiotics due to strep and staph infections.

Hi, I am an ABM breastfeeding counsellor.
It does sounds like it could be thrush. lots of people describe thrush as a burning or itching sensation and it is often a deep shooting pain that lasts after a feed has finished. Other thrush symptoms include nipples looking red/shiny or blanched and for the baby it can include white spots in the mouth and a general unsettledness (not sure that's a word!) during feeds.

The BfN do a good thrush leaflet that can be downloaded from their website and it also includes info that you can give to your GP about medications. Important if it is thrush that Mum AND baby get treated at the same time, even if they don't both have symptoms, as it can get passed back and forth. Also, you need to be treated for at least ten days - a week is not enough.

Some other latching on tips that can often make a big difference are:

make sure you support baby's neck rather than head - having your hand behind their head inhibits the 'throwing the head back' reflex that allows baby to get a really wide mouth. This is a really common mistake as instinct tells you to support the head.

In a cradle hold, try shifting your baby just a little bit further around your body e.g. if they are on the left breast shift them right - this can make a big difference to how easy it is for your baby to suck and swallow.

Make sure you aim to get the bottom lip in place first, get as much of the areola on the bottom lip side of the nipple in the mouth first as poss - the nipple will then follow and should end up right at the back of the mouth, by the soft palette.

Agree with other posters that it can feel sore for the first few weeks, even when you feel you are doing everything right. Get as much support as poss from peers local support groups, breastfeeding counsellors - this is skill to be learned, not something that comes naturally to everyone. Most importantly, breastfeeding is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR BABY (not that I'm bias!)so do PERSEVERE - it does get easier.
xxxxx

I had a baby who sucked like a Dyson, no wonder my nipples cracked. The hospital midwife said just rub some milk in they'll be fine, disregarded the pain as something everyone has. But despite milk, chamomile cream, different feeding positions I still cracked, and the pain was just as described, even before the cracks, I had to grit my teeth and steel myself to latch on. I think my nipples were super-sensitive. It took the community midwife to examine me and said she'd seen this before in another mum, she got the GP to prescribe Bactroban ointment, a wide spectrum antibiotic, active ingredient Mupirocin 2% for primary bacterial infection. I don't know if this is still manufactured, but it worked, at 4 weeks post natal I was healed and pain free. You can't feed from the ointment treated breast, you need to express until it's healed, but treat one and feed from the other, then swap when the first has healed. I wish there was some means by which we could toughen up our nipples in peparation for feeding. I still have he scars!!!