night wakings - DS 5months BF any suggestions???

[choolie]

Hi,
This is my first post, having lurked for a while, and I'm wondering if anybody can give some suggestions to reduce the number of times DS wakes in the night??? (wonder how many 1st posts concern night wakings???)

He's been exclusively BF since birth. He feeds approx 8.45am, 12pm, 2pm, 6.15pm in the day. Sleeps roughly 9-10am, 12-2pm and goes down 7pm-ish. sometimes he wakes mid eve for a feed, sometimes not until we go to bed. then he can wake 3-4 times a night for a feed. He doesn't always take a lot at each feed, but I think he's just got in the habit of doing it and has SA with feeding / sucking as sometimes he grabs my hand to suck on my finger to sleep (I know, don't let him have my finger, but sleep deprived 3am it's sometimes easier!)

I've got both the Sears & Pantley sleep books and am trying a few things from there, but does anybody have any suggestions to reduce the wakings? i know they have growth spurts during the night so may well still need to feed, but I do want to get him down to 1 or at most 2 wakings if I can. He used to wake 3 and 5am (after my 1st reading of Pantley), then it's increased back up again the last couple of weeks. he can wake anywhere from 12.30 onwards. I've started him on baby rice and puree 2 wks ago, but this hasn't made any difference. I've tried topping up with a btl of expressed but he won't take it. (Oh how I regret not being bothered with the sterilising at the beginning!)

I've tried to get him to take more in the day and offer the boob regularly, but he takes as much as he wants and no more.

At 3 months he was sleeping through from 10pm to 5am, a couple of times even till 7, then somehow he seemed to get his days & nights mixed up for feeding, as I thought he was on a hunger strike, but realised after a month he was feeding 3 times in the night (big feeds) and only a couple of times in the day. (My HV was useless, just laughed and said she was still feeding her 2yr old DD two-hourly in the night).

I planned to BF for 6 months, but now don't feel ready emotionally to give it up, I really enjoy it and it's helped us to bond after a traumatic birth, so I really don't want to give it up just to try and help with this, esp. if FF then doesn't help either.

any words of wisdom???
TIA

well, i am not an expert at all on this (only have one ds, younger than yours...) but what you say chimes with what's been happening with us as well. Two things that have helped us:
-expressed milk: DS at first took, and then stoutly refused EBM from a bottle; what made a difference was giving it to him really warm - warmer than blood heat. And having a yoghurt pot of hot water sitting beside you so you can warm it up again part way through if necessary.
-for us, bizarrely, more spaced out feeds in the day lead to much longer sleeps at night. I've been finding that if I feed at 7, 11, 2.30, 6.30 during the day then he'll actually sleep through till 4am; however if I feed more often, and particularly if he doesn't get a proper 2 hours sleep at lunchtime then he'll wake at 10.30, 3ish and then early in the morning as well.
Not sure if this'll help at all! just our experiences!

Have you tried wakening him for a feed before you go to bed? I would have suggested more frequent feeds during the day but you say you have tried that.

Baby rice and puree may actually make matters worse as he will have a fuller tummy on less calories than he would get from breastmilk. Babies often wake more frequently when started initially on solids.

When my babies woke more frequently during the night, I took them into bed so that I could get back to sleep when they fed. It was a phase that passed and i didn't have any problems getting them to sleep on their own again. HTH.

Littlefrog, any tips on getting the 7am feed started? i've been trying to settle DS from 4am onwards when he wakes in the hope I can get him to feed 7am, but he just refuses a feed at 7, whether he's fed 2 hours earlier, or 5 hours earlier. (even to the point that we don't open the curtains and DH doesn't make a sound, as if it's still a night feed and still nothing doing). I'll try spacing the feeds out in the day and hope he'll take more. - Another thing is that he's just a 1 boob at a time baby, so I can never get him to switch after the 1st boob. he will be on a good 20 mins, sometimes longer, and has always seemed happy, he's never interested when I offer the 2nd boob. maybe this is part of the problem? perhaps he needs both sides now, but as he's not used to it, he'd rather have more feeds.

Mears, yes, i give him a feed before we go to bed every night, sometimes he wakes up before we go up, sometimes he stirs when we go into the bedroom. He generally has a full feed at this time, but is more or less asleep throughout it. his cot is right next to me, and I have considered having him sleep with me - I more or less do it now from 5am, just to get some sleep myself! It hasn't seemed like he's cut his milk feeds down since starting solids but perhaps he isn't taking as much in, maybe I'll stop for another week and see if that helps, thanks.

fingers crossed!

At five months I had the same problems you described.
Firstly, I fed him one side at 10.30-11pm, woke him up for it, though he was drowsy, burped him and changed his nappy, this woke him up a bit more and he had the second side. This allowed him to sleep a bit longer and he woke at 3.45am instead of 1, then 3, then 5 etc. I did this for a week, then I stopped the 4am feed and just put his dummy in, he cried the first 2 nights for a very short while, when I knew he wouldn't settle himself I went into his room and sshhed him gave him the dummy again and went back to bed. He went to sleep on the secind visit. Slept until 6am when he was hungry. I cn't get him to go to 7am still, but that's okay with me. At least now I get sleep from 11pm until 6am and that's a whole load more than before. At 6am, I give him one side change his nappy and give him the other, this brings us closer to 7am, then at 7.30 I give him some breakfast and he goes back to sleep at 9am. Then were on track for the rest of the day.
Good luck, sorry for the lengthy post.

Sorry, not got any advice on the sleeping issue but just picking up on your last point.

If you don't feel ready to give up bf'ing then don't. And don't let anyone else pressure you either. There's no magical reason why you should give up at 6 months especially if you are happy to continue. I was going to feed till 6 months, then it became 12 months, then it became 2 years, ds is now 22 months and i can see it being extended again lol.

Besides it's a lot less hassle to deal with nightwakings with a breastfeed than a bottle feed.

sorry love got no advice but woohooo i'd love to meet your health visitor ( a health visitor who is extended breastfeeding a 2 yo on demand and through the night?) or have i read it wrong?

Yes, HV told me that with her eldest daughter, she was still feeding her every two hours throughout the night at 2yrs old! (unfortunately, everything I ask is related back to her daughters, so for example, the question what to do about DS's nappy rash on front bits, was met with a laugh and oh don't ask me, I just had girls!) so the voice of experience not always that helpful!!!

My DD slept really well until 3months. They woke 2-6 times a night up to 6 months. Started on purees but made no difference. Know lots of FF babies that woke frequently too. At 6.5 months things started to improve. At 7months she started to sleep through. We did do Gradual Retreat which helped but I think she was ready to sleep through. Solids make no difference, she has slept 11hours on only half a pot of yoghurt for dinner. I remember the 3-4months feeling like a zombie it was horrible. But I still have never given formula at nearly 9 months. Keep going it will pass. Try GR.

It does seem that all other babies are sleeping through but it will end and you are doing the best thing for your baby by BF.

thanks Tapster, sometimes even if there's no immediate solution, it helps just to hear other people say it does get better eventually! I don't want to give up on the BF now that we're both enjoying it so much. My mum keeps telling me to give him a bottle (and wags a finger in his face and tells him he will take it!!!), but I don't see the point, esp if FF babies are not guaranteed to sleep through. i'd be gutted to give up BF only for the problem to get worse!!!
I'll hang on in there.

I'd be a millionaire if I had been given a £1 every time I was told to either give a bottle or use CC (MIL would have contributed the most) to get her to sleep through. Night wakings is the norm for babies. Go to bed early, nap during the day if you can, buy ready meals, we got a cleaner for 3 months which we could ill afford. It will get better hang in there, didn't think I would get to 6 months, now at 9 months and can't bear the thought of stopping at 1 year.