I wonder why Aptamil is the most promoted formula by HCPs?

[NotReallyHereHunker]

Could it be the discounted dry cleaning?

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Did you not read my post, bags?

It's to do with relationships - far more worthwhile to a drug salesperson than a direct correlation between pens and prescriptions.

You clearly regard relationships as important - you want a relationship of trust and honesty between you and your patients, without the impression of commercial interests creeping in, and this is why you did not want to display the free mousemats etc.

The drug salesperson regards relationships as important as well.

Go figure

Tiktok, that may be true on the reps' part, but I do believe health professionals regard reps as a minors irritants to be tolerated, rather than trusted co-workers.

It's a sad fact that in the hospital where I worked, we generated lots of funding from drug companies. This was for important research in a very "unsexy" area of healthcare. Academic standards and ethics committees ensured the data wasn't skewed in favour of funding (though I concede in advance that not all papers get published ). We just had to sit through (and ignore!) the rep. spiel to been seen to be playing our part.

maybe some hps don't buy into the sales pitch but still accept the freebies. you know, a growth chart, postit notes, etc.

but it is still more about brand recognition.

and when a patient comes in and sees the SMA growth chart or fluoxetine pen (for example), its the subconcious drip, drip of approval by association (with a hv or doctor or whoever) and what they can just ask about next time?

If it didn't work, they wouldn't do it.

They don't put flags on the moon saying "SMA Gold, it'll make your baby an astronaut!" because nobody would see them and it would be a waste of money.

They do the rep stuff and the freebie stuff because it works.

They'll have researched that, you see. And they won't let you have access to those figures either.

out of interest, does anyone know how maternity hospitals decide which formula(s) to buy, as I imagine that many mothers would be influenced by that.

Our local hosp give out aptimil as a last resort to mums - they are very pro bf and go out of their way too help but also respect mums wishes. No advertising is allowed at all within the maternity unit. I think parents should take in their own formula if planning to ff.

Mine had (I think) Aptamil, C&G and SMA.

They used to do Farley's, but nobody asked for it, apparently (according to one member of staff who Knows Things!).

Tiktok, you know how Aptamil has patented 'immunofortis'. Do you know if it is just the word they have patented or is it the actual bacteria/probiotic, whatever.

sorry for the geeky question.

Im hungry

I am assuming it is the formulation, kiskidee...I can't see how it would be anything else.

These formulations are manufactured - they're not 'discovered' like electricity and then named. It's not like Sir Francis Drake (was it him?) discovering potatoes and then calling them potatoes.

I don;t think you can patent a name - you could copyright it, I suppose.

But I have to say I haven't checked this - will do so tomorrow if I can.

Mine had SMA and C & G. I doubt I would have been aware of SMA as a brand otherwise. (I hadn't planned to use formula so was utterly clueless)

IMMUNOFORTIS is a Trademark, and the product is Patented too. So its both.

I was wondering if they secured sole rights to using that word.

now this is how my widdle brain works:

when i was in bed bfeeding dd tonight, i thought of that word.

years ago, the manager of the Chicago Bulls, must be copyrighted, the word 'threepeat'

when the Bulls won teh championship 3 yrs in a row, he made an absolute fortune off every basketball shirt that used that word.

los chingones. (my reaction to the info in vvv's last post)

ooh off to scan nmc guidleines now as in the mnay tiems i have read it i don't remeber seeing anythign about refusing gifts from drug reps?

anyone know which guideline it is? save me a lengthy read?

not sure how that works though as the hopsitals have reps in all the time for pampers, sma, etc actaully haven't seen a aptamil rep and alot of the freebies come from the bounty lady though, often dropping boxes of free pens with brand names on and things like the due date calcualtor wheels.

persoanlly i have a viagra pen for work. always raises a smile when peopel read it.

Through my experience as a health professional with sick babies they tend to chuck less with aptamil Sma is the worst for that

Now that's an interesting point, Aliway, and analgous to the supposed advantage that Aptamil gives more 'breastfed-like' poos.

Chucking up could be a defense mechanism - formula that allows a baby to throw up the excess easily could be better for health than formula that stays in the tummy whatever happens. (Obv I am not talking about babies who throw up and who become under-nourished as a result, or dehydrated).

Choosing or recommending a formula on this basis could be totally spurious (not assuming you do this, Aliway)....but it's this sort of thing that gets passed round as a hint and a tip. Babies' nutrition should really not be based on hints and tips!

Tiktok,
you said:
Chucking up could be a defense mechanism - formula that allows a baby to throw up the excess easily could be better for health than formula that stays in the tummy whatever happens. (Obv I am not talking about babies who throw up and who become under-nourished as a result, or dehydrated).

I don't think that would hold water really....I mean, I had 3 happy chuckers....and they were all breastfed...admittedly my es, who I breastfed the shortest period (around 4 month) puked for the longest...he was probably 18 month by the time he stopped....and I had tried different Formulas, and they were all as bad as eachother....
With ms and ys they grew out of the chucking up between 6-8 month and even when ms stopped bf at 10m, and I used Formula (and incidently I did use Aptamil with him, it wasn't around with my es, and seeing that it is a german made, I suppose I felt I could trust it the best...I didn't have the same trusting relationship to the other Formulamakes, despite of course feeding them to my es...)he luckily didn't start the puking again....but that was because he was grown out of it....

The NHS would need additional stationery budget fundinfg if they stopped accepting advertising freebies.

If NHS staff are suitably cynical about the whole thing why don't they have a swaps system whereby Maternity services staff hand over all their formula related freebies in exchange for pens /mugs/post its/ mousemats advertising drugs for heart conditions and say anti malarial drugs from other areas of the hospital or primary care trust employing them.

Less chance of influence then.

The only time I saw a rep welcomed was when the member of staff in charge had just said to me as we were finishing up our meeting "Oh, I see Derek's here, I must have a word with him as we're really short on post it notes and he's bound to have brought plenty with him"

Message withdrawn

Malfoy, you have totally misunderstood me, sorry.

I didn't say it was a bad thing for a baby to throw up. Or a good thing. I am aware that many babies are happy chuckers. I am saying that it might be a bad thing to recommend/choose a formula on the basis of whether it seems to promote chucking up or not, and gave a reason why.

I thought I was crystal clear!

fedup - yes, the NHS would have to start supplying pens and post it notes and mousemats to enable people to do their job properly.

It would be interesting to see if this actually made a saving in the long-term.

For example, over time, generic drugs might be prescribed a little more often than branded ones, which would save money.

I can't believe how naive people are being about this. To say that doctors are not interested in the relationship they have with salespeople bar the chance of a paid-for night out is probably correct - the interest in the relationship comes the other way, from the salesperson. The beauty of this relationship is that one half of it doesn't even know it's happening and even denies it. They only love the salesperson for his/her free beer, or the post-it notes. Excellent work.

If it didn't add to profits, they wouldn't do it. It is very important to get brand names known - it's the first thing they teach you in marketing school! It's very important to know your customers. That's lesson two. Lesson three is getting your customers to like you.

It's a long-term strategy, that doesn't relate solely to number of drugs (or formula cans) sold.

Please look at the no free lunch link.

thanks for clarification tiktok...

you're welcome

oh I don't know about NO free lunches, tiktok. The team I work in was visited by a new drugs rep - came and provided lunch followed by a presentation. As a team, we decided to go get the food, make our excuses and leave. It did feel a bit rude at the time. But. He tried again a couple of times, got the same reaction, and stopped coming. So there def were a couple of free lunches.
....Sorry for facetiousness. Can't help myself..