Formula at night for BF baby?

[lulupop]

DD is nearly 20 weeks now and i still haven't slept more than 3 hours at a time! She has a big feed around 5pm, then goes to bed at 7 with another feed (about 20 mins). i have tried giving these feeds from a bottle to see how much she takes and to settle her more easily (before she would wake for more food 2 or 3 times between 7-9pm) and she has about 7oz total.

then wakes herself up around 11pm, feeds for not v long, and then is awake all night on and off. Will not settle for anything other than feed but equally, doesn't actually feed that much before falling asleep again.

last night i decided to offer formula at the 11pm feed to see if i cld get her to take more and sleep for longer. she had 2 oz vv slowly, sicked half of it back up, then BF a bit, then went back down.

only slept till 2am then awake again all night and quite sicky. although she is sicky in daytime, normally not at night. she has had formula before though.

any ideas anyone? sorry to ramble

This sounds like ds who is now 2.5 and is the best sleeper I know! We used to give formula at 7pm following 5pm bf. He then used to go thru' to about 1pm, good bf including change nappy to wake him up so that he got really good feed (I always offered both breasts). Then up again usually early morning 5am. This went on until 7 months by which time ds was on 3 solid meals a day. I was going back to work so we did do some controlled crying and it worked in 3 days. Since then ds has slept from 7pm to 7am every night.
I think formual takes some getting used to if they haven't had much before. Have you tried a different brand?
Remeber you are doing brilliantly well with the bfeeding and the sleeping will happen! HTH

lulupop - I would advise not to give formula in the hope that it will make your baby sleep at night. It can have such an impact on your feeding that before you know it you can be totally bottle feeding. However I do know that there are mumsnetters out there who have managed to do mixed feeding very successfully.

What I would advise before you decide about formula is to directly breastfeed rather than give EBM out a bottle as you are doing just now. Just because you can see how much your baby is getting is false reassurance. Your baby may well get 10oz from a breastfeed and is therefore getting less than she wants. The other thng is that the milk changes throughout the feed when the baby feeds directly from the breast.
Although she wants fed frequently in the evening, it may well allow her to stock up before bedtime. You could offer a dummy at this time though if you feel it is not really hunger.
Since you are able to express I would suggest you build up a stock in the freezer. Do you have a partner/husband at home? You could agree nights that he would get up and give DD EBM so that you could sleep.

Remember there are bottle fed babies who do not sleep at night either. At least with B/F you can take DD into bed, latch her on and feed and sleep at the same time. Try and get rest during the day too. When she sleeps, you should try and do the same.

You are doing so well still breastfeeding at 20 weeks. Please do not doubt your ability to feed your baby. It may well be that she is a night waker which can be dealt with once she is past 6 months. Have you tried a 'dream feed' last thing before you go to bed? Other mumsnetters have had success with that where you breast feed the baby while they are half asleep?

Hope some of that may be helpful.

Mears - have you seen the bbc pregnancy website? I was just reading the breast vs. bottle page and they have put pro's of formula as:
more sleep
more convenient
less anxiety
more comfortable (ie: no mastitis)
I was quite shocked and feel a letter coming on...!
Sorry lulupop i didn't mean to hijack you thread!

Can't find the page you are talking about strwaberry - can you do a link?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/751204.stm

The BBC parenting website is actaully quite good, however that BBC news article certainly might put women off breastfeeding if it wasn't for the counter argument which has also ben presented as the pos for breastfeeding,

Boosting immunity: The baby receives the mother's antibodies to help it fight infection
less likelihood that the baby suffers constipation, diarrhoea and wind
more protection against gastroenteritis, childhood diabetes, allergies like eczema and chest and ear infections
Convenience: There is no need to get up in the night to sterilise bottles. Breast milk is always at the right temperature, is available immediately, is easy for the baby to digest, contains all the nutrients the baby needs and is free
Reduction in the risk of the mother contracting early breast or ovarian cancer and fracturing her hips
A speedier return to the pre-pregnancy figure for the mother as breastfeeding helps the womb to contract and also burns up calories.

It certainly is the age old debate....

thanks everyone, especially mears. i know what an impact formula can have on bf as the moment i started DS on formula (12 weeks but he was a VERY hungry boy) was effectively the moment i started to stop bf, IYSWIM.

i have tried dreamfeeding but find she just doesn't wake up enough (even with a nappy change) to take more than a few feeble sucks. it actually feels like during the night she only takes at each feed just enough to get back to sleep, rather than a full feed. what can i do about this? i am feeding on demand during the day (right now actually, hence dodgy syntax ), but really would like to find a way to be only giving one night feed by now. I'm knackered and really want to keep BF but need more sleep! sleeping during day v hard as DD only has 2 40 min naps and DS doesn't sleep at all.

Do you feed her in bed lulupop?

Can someone take them both out during the day for you to catch up on some sleep?

Could she be waking for comfort and the fact that she needs to suck a boob to be able to get back to sleep. The fact that she doesnt take much could mean that she isnt hungry but instead wakes up and cant get back to sleep and so when you feed her its what she needs to go back to sleep(hope that made sense) I think this is sometimes the case with my DD and I know some nights when shes a bit unsettled and noisy I feed her just to get her back to sleep, even though she isnt hungry.
I know some people disagree but could you try offering water at night to see if this settles her. over a couple of days reduce the amount of water and she may think its not worth waking up for. I dont have first hand experience if it works but have read it somewhere as a tip to prevent them waking.
I have also given ebm at 11pm. The reason I did this was because she fell asleep straight away on my breast but with the bottle she didnt and so had more milk. I then put her onto the breast to see if she wanted more where she would always fall asleep. I found that this helped her cut out the 2am feed. I dont do this anymore as couldnt express enough milk all the time but even though I now just bf at 11 she still sleeps until 4am MOST NIGHTS. I think by doing that I just broke the habit of waking at 2am.

Lulupop, am lurking and sympathising. My dd
(17wks) has a very similar pattern. I haven't found a solution! But I'm glad to know she's not the only one giving her poor mum a hard time this way. good luck...

Have come upstairs armed with water for DD tonight. Will BF at 11pm, then after that going to try and settle her with water.

Have had nightmare day with DS being v aggressive after nursery (started last week), bedtime took an hour and DH out tonight for "leaving drinks" (starting new job next week), so no doubt will come home all beery and amorous at some ungodly hour. I expect I'll be awake already, breasts out!

how did it go last night lulupop?

lulupop
just another thought, my ds (7wks) bf, is getting very little sleep in the day and has really been good at night, he's big at 14/9 and half, so likes to munch, but i find the nights are good with me often gettting a stretch of 5 1/2 hrs from about 9.30/10 (i am now dashing out to hug a tree , i'll jinx myself tonight).
my dd is constantly touching him or shouting or i just dont get the time to lull him calmly for a daytime nap, he's just put down.
so maybe, as i often see on this site, her daytime sleep needs shortening.
mears advice is very helpful i'll be taking it on board too.
my dd woke alot at night and she too was b/f and i expected it to be the same with my son.

Egypt - last night was crap. She refused the water and screamed until I BF her. Then the rest of the night proceeded as normal (me in spare bed with her feeding on and off, me in light sleep, then up at 5.30am).

Hermykne - gosh your DS does sound a big lad. My DD is 20 weeks now and still not quite 13.5 pounds! But my DS was big like yours, and fed v v well and did sleep a bit longer by this point. Can't see how I can reduce DD's daytime sleep as she only has a couple of 30 min naps as it is .

Am just going to try and hang in there for another few weeks till she;s 6 months then we'll see if solids make any difference at all.

lulupop my baby was the same as yours except more so during the day rather than at night. I echo what kbaby said and found that he was just needing comfort of sucking rather than actually feeding. He wasn't getting enough of the hind milk because he was feeding so frequently so was getting really windy and sicky as well, which was just making it worse. I really dont like dummies (my opinion only) but I tried one and now i have the happiest little boy, who now only feeds 4 hourly and is much more settled when he is awake.

You could try giving your baby your little finger to suck everytime she wakes / cries / fusses to find out if she wants comfort or food. If she wants food she will reject your finger and cry for food. Otherwise she will suck contentedly. You may find this gives you both a break and is worth a try. HTH

I mixed fed and ds was as truly dreadful a sleeper on formula as he was on breastmilk. Honestly, it didn't make him sleep one minute longer, and to be frank, if it had, he would have had a lot more of it. My ds was also awake all night off and on and believe me, I know how dreadful and soul-destroying it is. I don't think anything helped us except getting to 8months when cc finally worked and he's been a brilliant sleeper since then. But the memories of those early months are still very vivid and painful for dh and me. Lots of sympathy to you - and it will eventually end.