challenging illegal formula packaging - sorry if this has already been posted but this is from the CEO of the NCT

[harpsichordcuddler]

"The NCT has been given a clear view from LACORS (the Local Authorities Coordinators of Regulatory Services that some infant formula packaging currently on store shelves is illegal under current regulations.

In order for it to be removed from sale there needs to be a prosecution or threatened prosecution. Local Trading Standards Officers are the people who would bring a prosecution, but to do this they need to receive large numbers of complaints from across the UK.

Would you help? This is your chance to make a real difference.

Next time you are in a supermarket or chemist, check out the infant formula packs (this formula is labelled as ?suitable from birth?) and read the wording.

The wording we are informed is illegal is

? Formulated to be nutritionally close to breastmilk
? With omega 3 LCP,s
? Closer Than Ever to Breastmilk
? Inspired by breastmilk

You may find other wording which is similar.

Send photos or a description to your trading standards office (you can locate your nearest using this link)

Scotland www.scotss.org.uk/scotss2.htm

England www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/consumers/clegis.cfm

Wales www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/env_services/tradingstandards/

N Ireland www.detini.gov.uk/cgi-bin/get_builder_page?page=61&site=9&parent=110

Channel islands www.gov.je/EconomicDevelopment/TradingStandards/

With a note to say

?These packs were on display in my local xxxxxxx on date xxxxx and I believe them to be illegal under current legislation because of the wording on the packs.
Please note the words

[INSERT WORDING ON PACK]

My information is that this wording is likely to be illegal. Please would you follow this up for me and let me know the outcome. ?

They will do the rest. You don?t need to explain why you think it is illegal or comment any further ? just report it. The body from whom local TSOs take their lead has already advised us that this packaging is illegal. Your letter will push them to act."

It is not okay to mislead or make false claims and loads of companies do operate very closely within the law, but to me that is what the whole marketing thing is about, to convince a consumer to buy a certain product.
I do not beleive that formula is better than breastmilk. I also do not beleive that formulas differ greatly from brand to brand.
In fact when the 'closer to breastmilk' slogan was out, all I could see was that it was promoting that breastmilk was best,to me they may aswell have said 'its okay but not as good as breastmilk' but that is how my mind works....
So should they be banned from making comparisons and just have the words 'infant formula' on along with the breast is best message..?

Wow...how early was BF Nazi mentioned....nice touch.....
lol at people believing there will be a formula shortage....honestly, don't think that si gonna happen!
And someone said it already, they (Formula company)signed a certain agreement, if they now get away with not sticking wihtin the agreed rules...surely there wasn't much point in that anyway....
still amazed how people are fooled to believe that advertising is inimportant and hasn't got any effect...isn't rocket science to work that one out...I mean, those big concerns would not waste millions and billions on advertisement campaigns if they were wihtout effect....anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselfs in believing they are absolutely immune....

Twofishes - they can't all be closer/closest/closer than ever/now closer to breastmilk. Mothers deserve some clarification, and if none is able to emerge, then they should not make those claims, which are, in any case, illegal .

I am happy for as much information to be on cans as is needed to ensure the product is used appropriately and safely. Any claims need to be legal and demonstratable, just as with any other product - but perhaps especially so, when we are talking about the sole source of nutrion for an infant.

I don't see a case for slogans, no, or cute bunny-wunnies or ducky-wuckies, or stylised logos, apart from ones needed to ensure the right product is used at the right age. Comparisons with other brands? - ok, as long as I can trust them to be true. I mean, I would be comfortable with 'easiest formula to dissolve' or 'extended sell-by date for longer-term storage' because those claims can be objectively demonstrated.

I am always surprised when this turns out to be controversial. Surely all mothers, breastfeeding and formula feeding, want to know babies are protected from false claims? It's not enough to turn on the sophistication and say 'I am never influenced' or 'I know it's all marketing shit' - some mothers are aware that they are influenced, and others are not aware.

To me, it comes down to whether it bothers you that people are being lied to or not.

yes, that's what I don't understand either.
if you feel you weren't misled, then fair enough, but why does that mean that no-one was misled?
it is a bit of a mistake to equate your own experience with a universal truth in any way.
every woman is different, and every situation is different.
if the claims are not misleading then the prosecution won't succeed.
I think it is a very legitimate discussion.

OMG it was my opinion only!!! thats why a lot of the sentences begin with 'I beleive'...surely that is what we are all doing giving our opinions?
Harpsi where did I say my experience is the universal truth ? it was just that MY EXPERIENCE.. I give up Goodbye MN!!

Thanks for responding re my question. Fair enough a minority of women do think formula is the same as bmilk. But I still find it hard to believe this is down to the formula packaging and don't see how the survey mentioned proves that this is the case. I guess I just think that energy would be better spent on education and support.

Also, is there evidence that the probiotics (or whatever they are!) in formula don't work? If not then what is the problem in saying they're there? Of course what's written on a tin of formula is marketing but it's information too and shouldn't we have that information?

As an aside, I can't see why it is a bad thing that the omega 3 oils in formula come from fish eyes/heads or whatever - where do you think the omega 3 that a breastfeeding mother passes to her baby comes from?!

Def agree there should be testing of diff brands of formula.

Final point - Aitch you say your mum etc told you formula now is much better than years ago, but surely this would be true as the formula companies are constantly researching and changing the formula.

TikTok .. your post of 16:29.

How patronizing is it possible for you to be? I rather doubt that you were being ironic, how ever much it might suit you to imply so.

I am now parping this thread, but please ... continue with your evangelizing.

I don't really understand why you are so upset about this desiderata.
you weren't misled - fine.
not massively relevant to this discussion, but fine.
I don't have any problem with women choosing formula.
trading standards are asking for people to complain. no-one is asking you to complain!
I really don'tsee why you are getting your knickers in such a twist about it.

SNORT! I am getting my knickers in a twist

Look, you're right, OK? You're always right. But it's boring to be on a thread where you're always right. So I say again,

PARP.

Desiderata, yes I am rather upset and annoyed.
I don't much like being insulted, judged and mocked for the way I feed my baby.
weird, eh?
I am not holding my breath for an apology though

I don't recall doing any of those things, harpsi. And because I don't recall it, I've just read through this thread. At no point have I insulted, judged or mocked anyone.

And if you think I have, then please point out where.

By Desiderata on Thu 19-Jul-07 22:58:55
Twinkle, I know how it feels. I was there myself and cried my eyes out when I made the decision to give it up.

That was hormonal, and I don't regret it now. I had a shit time with bf.

My target was really only six weeks any way (which I managed, just).

six months is fine, but why you'd want to bf a kid that talks is quite beyond me.

I have bf a child that talks. two, actually. yuk, eh?
if anyone on here was to say
"why anyone would want to feed a child formula is beyond me"
they would be kicked sideways. and quite rightly.

Neither of those comments made on this thread, however.

Bad form.

Blimey. Only read the last coupke of posts and am horrified at Desiderata's comment. Agree with Haprsichord 100%. Can't be ar$ed to see what the OP was now.

I was explaining why I was upset with you in particular.
Like I said, I am not holding my breath for an apology, or even any tolerance and understanding.

Whaht would have been bad form would have been to pull you up for it on that thread, which was a support thread for formula feeders. not the time or the place.
No one else mentioned it either.

Going slightly off topic here, but just wanted to ask, are formula companies allowed to advertise at all to mums?

I only ask because I was doing my shopping in Sainsburys a while back and was practically pounced on by 'SMA product sampler woman' and asked if I wanted some samples etc to take home (I had DD with me and am heavily pregnant, she was beside herself) anyway when I told her I breasfed, she said 'oh no, this is follow on, from 6 mths see for when you stop '

I've got a feeling after reading this thread, that I probably should of told her to sod off

Not bad form at all, IMO, if you are dipping your toe into the realms of hypocrisy with your "rights for all, no-one should be criticised for choice" stance.

I think it's somewhat disingenuous, and quite relevant, actually.

Scoobyc - the second point you raised is in fact one of my major gripes with formula companies.

They show pretty little graphs on their websites, and quote various percentages about how much more their pre-biotic containing formula boosts a baby's immune system, but, thus far, have point blank refused to back up these claims and facts and figures with the actual research.

In fact, when you query it, the very first thing they ask you is if you are "medical".

What have they got to hide? Surely if this research redeems them, they'd be happy to dish it out?

scooby, i didnt say it's a bad thing that it comes from fish heads and eyes, i just said it because it's true. i attach no value judgement to it, i fed it to my own daughter.

But the formula companies know that people wouldn't like to read the ingredients of their product, and that's presumably why they don't tell us them.

and you're assuming, much like my mother, that formula will have improved with the passage of time, but what are you basing that on? i bought my daughter the boiled fish head stuff because i hoped that it would benefit her, but i have seen no research to suggest that it's presented in a manner that a baby can absorb (there's a question mark over that, you see).

i bought her the stuff with 'immunofortis' in it because a working knowledge of latin tells me it may strengthen her immune system, but i've never seen the research to prove it. i don't even really know what it is, tbh. perhaps it is better now, perhaps it isn't. no-one knows, the information isn't out there. nothing else about mass-produced foodstuffs has got better over the last thirty years, that's for sure, so why would i assume that formula is the exception?

all i know is that having failed to bf i wanted to buy 'the best' formula possible for my daughter and that left me very vulnerable to the formula marketeers. i think that's a pile of wank, to be honest.

i'm a grown-up, i like reading research about choices i make and like tiktok says i can find out more details about my choice of vacuum cleaner than i can about the sole source of nutrition for my only child. how is that right?

hotcrumpets, it is OK to advertise/promote formula milk as long as it is for babies over six months old. that's why you will see promotions on follow on milk, which is a clever little bit of marketing to allow formula to build their brands.
allegedly

Sorry if I have missed an important chunk of the thread (but it is rather long for this time of night, and without my close-work glasses to boot!)
but.......

I understand the use of the word misled, but to those that do not, it is the drip, drip, drip feed effect that formula is as good as breastmilk/close to breastmilk/closer than breastmilk (and people only get that via advertising). It just aint. It's the next best for feeding babies, but it's not even close to breastmilk. Them's the facts.

As such, I am suprised to see this thread has gone teats-up, and on the other hand.... Harpsi, I am sorry your message seems to get lost in all of the inevitable, but by definition and all that lot.... Shame though, as it was never a "versus" thread.

oh, aitch has already said what I wanted to say. Phew.

But facts are funny things. You can alter them to suit. We all do.

People on this thread have the erroneous impression that I am anti breastfeeding.

Of course I'm not. You'd have to be a psychopath to be anti-bf.

It's all about tone. For instance, I know for a certainty that I'll get slated for my post, just because I posted. I have become the anti-christ of bf mothers

Emotions are powerful. They get in the way (usually quite rightly) of intellect. But I chose the latter course on this thread. You simply cannot infer or imply that bf kids are consistently healthier. You cannot infer that formula companies are misleading mothers, because they aren't. Check the labels and check their websites. Breast is best features on every single media segment about formula milk that I've seen.

You must know this. Please don't give me your reasoned opinion that everyone has the right to choose. You only have to look at this thread to know that your attachment to breastfeeding is religious and non-negotiable.
I'm very happy that you breastfeed. But to be honest, I haven't noticed that your appeal has had that many takers.

So, this can go both ways:

1. I am so obnoxious, people will back your appeal.

2. Your evangelism has put people off.

fwiw, I hope for No.1.

Desi, I haven't noticed you have any appeal.