Four week old (milk) monster

[hiccupgate]

My four week old is feeding...a lot. He'll go 3-4 hours at night but during today, it's every single hour for between 10 mins and half hour per feed. He's currently five minutes into my left boob after half hour on the right. He gets terrible wind and sicks up after every feed, so by the time he's been burped and held upright for the requisite time, he's bloody hungry again. He won't be put down when asleep like normal so has barely slept all afternoon and screams like a banshee if I try. What the hell is this?! He's EBF on demand. I'm assuming he wouldn't latch if he wasn't either hungry or in need of comfort, so could I be misreading what he actually wants? His weight gain is very good and his nappies are fine. MIL is coming tomorrow and I know I'm going to get lots of "advice" about schedules and dummies (not opposed to the idea of a dummy, I just want to wait a bit longer).

Help!!!

There are growth spurts one after the other at this age. You just need to sit down and get through it.

That said, possibly worth checking there’s no tongue tie - DS2 was only caught at 8 weeks old after 8 weeks of feeding every 45 minutes.

I suppose I just have no sense of what's normal - I find that very difficult.

This sounds very much like my first. Whilst it could all be working the realms of bloody knackering normal baby behaviour, it might be worth seeing if any of the symptoms of tongue tie sound familiar.

It might be worth reading [[https://kellymom.com/hot-topics/newborn-nursing this from Kellymom on BFing your baby in the early weeks and maybe showing it to your MIL

Dr Jack Newman has some good videos on YouTube too which you might find helpful and don't forget, you can always talk to a BFC on one of the Helplines

Sorry about the link fail . The Kellymom article is here.

Thanks Jilted. It's a minefield of advice out there and there seems to be such a wide range of normal. He just seems to get into this awful cycle of feeding and screaming some afternoons 😔.

It is a minefield, you’re right. I’ve always tried to stay on evidence based websites like Kellymom and askdrsears. There are some crazy sites and books out there. Stick without the ones where the advice is based on actual research 🙂

As for what's normal and not, was The Kellymom information useful? Sometimes it helps to mix with other Bfing Mums, are you managing to get to any BFing Support Groups?

Can I ask why you’re keeping him upright too?

Yes, the Kelly Mom page is really helpful. Most pages say 8-12 feeds a day and we are waay over that some days.

Upright because I find him very difficult to settle on his back after feeds and burping - he cries. The two positions that seem to help are either almost upside down over my shoulder or lying cuddled on my chest. He spits up a lot after feeds and I did wonder if he had some discomfort from reflux.

Lots of breastfeeding support groups near me and I know they do them at the local hospital too. If he carries on I will have to suck it up and ask for help IRL. Not something I'm very good at!!

Absolutely look at reflux. There's a big difference between posseting and reflux. My dc with reflux was miserable lying down and brought up huge amounts.

Asking for help is just that... remember, just because you're struggling it does not mean you're failing.

This is a tough old game and there will be days when you feel that you are trapped under your baby and that your boobs are the centre of his world!

Take each day as it comes, don't expect a pattern and just give him what he needs. You're doing fine, he's doing what comes naturally and you'll get through this.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks guys. It's so draining. Currently still trying to settle him after an 11.30pm feed. He will almost certainly want more again shortly.

Aornis - this is my first so I don't know (can you tell?!) but he will often bring up an initial mouthful when burped but then will then have another two or three more episodes over sick up over the following hour or or so.

Oh and I definitely got told today that I should make him wait longer between feeds.

These times of feeding loads are really tough aren't they. You feel like the only person in the world whos going through it or like you must be doing something wrong. 8-12 is really the minimum number of feeds in a day so don't worry too much that you're over it. LLL have some fab info on the early days. I like this one which despite being called my baby needs more milk is mostly all the ways you can tell he's getting enough and what's fairly normal at this stage www.laleche.org.uk/my-baby-needs-more-milk/

They also have a helpline which is open 8-11 everyday or you can sometimes call your local leader direct if you want to chat to someone www.laleche.org.uk/call/

My first was like this, big strapping lad, in retrospect it’s so logically fine, but I remember being sooo stressed, especially with my mum who was of a very formula-feeding is best, get up and get out mindset. What actually worked for me (who never watched tv before bebe) was getting really into watching the E Channel, the kardashians on repeat, or snuggling in bed feeding baby lying down on side, reading kindle over his shoulder and both snoozing on and off. Looking back I REALLY wish we’d not even tried to get out the bed or go anywhere. The feeding gets better, don’t fight it.

A couple of thoughts:

• Not wanting to be put down is normal. Have a look at No Cry Sleep Solutions for a gradual approach to reducing arm sleeping.
• Yes the lack of routine for a first baby is very draining. Second time around I knew everything was a phase and was mentally able to deal with it more
• I would rule out medical stuff. Reflux and tongue tie.
• Roughly at about 10 weeks I kept a diary of when he fed and when he slept and then I nudged him on to that routine instead of following one in a book. DS1 always had a short morning nap and a long afternoon one. DS2 could keep going for longer in the morning but then needed a v v long morning nap and a shorter afternoon nap. Routines will settle themselves over time and feeds will be spaced out.
• Bringing up milk is not unusual including an hour after feeds. Their guts are still immature. Again it gets better.

IF his latch is good and there is no tongue tie then I would say if he’s had 15 mins on each breast and fed well and been burped then he can go a couple of hours without needing an immediate feed. I could say that more confidently with DS2 than DS1. And I would just distract, wear in a sling, do other stuff in between. With DS2 I had DS1 to distract him and to distract me but with DS1 that time when I knew he didn’t really need a feed but I knew the boob would settle him, but he would be sick from feeding too much- I found that cycle harder to break.
Ways to break it-

• wear in a sling and walk around the house talking nonsense
• take a walk with him. Fresh air distracts them and then creates a good appetite.
• have a warm bath, change nappy, do a nice oil massage. Again spends some time and also will make him properly hungry for the next feed.

I have some other tips. My MIL who is batshit but a v experienced breastfeeder told me to create a routine for myself for my sanity

• so wake up at the same time every time. Feed. Hand baby to DH. Get DH to change baby. Have a shower, eat some tea and toast. Take baby back and resume morning feed. Get DH to do all morning chores, clean the house, do laundry and make a sandwich for breakfast.

So in roughly 40 mins you are dressed, baby is dressed and you are fed and there is a sandwich for lunch. So if the rest of the day goes to pot it’s fine.

• roughly at the same time every day go for a walk. We went for a walk from 3-5. I did a big feed from 2:15 onwards. And then some days he would shout a bit in the buggy but mostly he got used to it after the first ten days and would kick his little legs in excitement. And would also nap. When we came back in at 5 he would be ravenous and feed well.
• At some point after 6:30-7, roughly half an hour after a feed, start a semblance of a night routine. DS1 we started at 2 weeks. DS2 at birth. So nice oil massage in a dim room, dipped in a warm bath and washed down, back to a dim room with calm voices, change, read the same bloody book every day, feed and that’s it for the night. Then say between 7:30-7 am all feeds were in the dark and all changes in dim light. This was a bit boring at first and it meant one of us had to stay with the baby but v v v quickly DS1 and DS2 got day from night. And so even in a growth spurt period would then go back to sleep.
• My general advice on naps is that do whatever it takes to make them nap. Will they nap longer if held? Then so be it. Naps are time limited and I adopt a whatever works approach. It is always better to sort night sleeping first and then turn to naps.

And yes at 4 weeks it’s a big mess and they feed constantly. It gets better at 6 weeks, then 8 weeks and so on (assuming no other medical issues like reflux). It is hard because it seems relentless and it did with DS1 but with DS2 I just knew that it would be a phase and something else would be around the corner (yay early teething!).

Last night ended with baby in bed with me after three hours of trying to resettle. Today hasn't been as bad feeding-wise, can't say how much I appreciate the time you have taken to write replies. I have friends with same age babies but also all first children, so equally clueless. I feel better that very frequent feeding is normal but will still check with doctor about tongue tie and reflux when we go in a couple of weeks.

Potol we have a morning routine but the afternoons are still anyone's guess! He then does a final feed and settles for the night at roughly the same time every day without prompting so I should take that really at four weeks. We do need to start a bedtime routine properly though.

Hurumph - I've just discovered that we've had E! added to our package and KUWTK is my guilty daytime secret. Better than Homes under the effing Hammer.

Blimey, at 4 weeks old this is normal. DD is 14 weeks and still cluster feeds in evenings. Baby is probably having w growth spurt and trying to stimulate your supply. Just go with it and it will settle down on it’s own. Try calling the National breastfeeding helpline. They have been very helpful to me.

P.s. I love Homes Under the Hammer 😁

My little one seemed to be on the boob constantly for the first few weeks. We worked out he had a tongue tie as I was in a lot of pain.
Definitely get that checked.
Also, if baby has fed well on each breast for at least 15 minutes, and sucking has slowed right down (look up flutter sucking), but when you break the latch he fusses and wants to go back on, this is the time to introduce a dummy.
My little one (11 week old) sometimes screams even though he's had a good long feed (usually 30-40 minutes on one side, I have too much milk for him to do both sides most feeds), and I'll pop him back on but then he'll scream as soon as the letdown comes. I've learned he just wants to suck, but doesn't want more milk.
I introduced a dummy at 2 weeks for situations like this.
Also 4-5 weeks is a growth spurt time, where babies will feed a lot more.
It's possible that baby is not sucking effectively, or that your milk supply is low/letdown is slow, meaning baby takes a while to feel full. Here are a few articles about what I've mentioned on a very helpful website:

www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/my-baby-getting-enough-milk
www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/fussy-periods-and-wonder-weeks
www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bf-info/common-concerns%E2%80%93baby/how-many-breastfeeds

Sorry I don't know how to put these as hyperlinks, you'll have to copy and paste to your browser

Thanks PRose those links are really helpful.