HELP! I'ts all going to pot.........DS3 now 3 1/2 weeks what IS going on???

[fannyannie]

I'm suspecting my latch isn't great but I'm not sure.

Basically DS3 is breastfed (atm!) and although he's never had the best latch in the world he's been happy with what he's getting from me - until yesterday (and a little the day before). Yesterday evening/last night/first thing this morning have been a complete nightmare - he just doesn't seem to be able to latch on at all, then he screams and gets himself really worked up. He's had 4/5 of these screaming sessions and they generally last about 30-60 minutes. Sometimes he (appears) to be trying to latch on, othertimes he's just arching his back/neck away. When he does latch on it's only for a short time and then he falls alseep (probably exhausted).

This morning in desperation I agreed to let DH pop to tesco for some bottles, sterilisers ( on that one - didn't realise we still had the old one in the cupboard so that was an expensive buy), and yes - the dreaded formula.

While I was waiting for the water to cool down to give him a bottle of formula I decided to express some milk (as he'd not had much what with all the screaming/sleeping malarky) and got 4oz in about 5 minutes (I know lack of milk is not an issue last night I had both norks out and practically flooded the bed trying to calm him down LOL). Which I (stress that as I know sometimes they won't take a bottle from mum in the early days) then duly gave to him - he finished the lot and then did suckle for a little while on the breast and fell asleep......I managed to transfer him to his bouncy chair (he's got a 'thing' about his carry cot so didn't even try that LOL) and he's still asleep now (about 1/2 later).

So - I've got enough milk, he evidently likes it , he's been absolutely fine for 3 weeks - so why the sudden change from him???

Any suggestions. I was gutted first thing this morning about the thought of giving him a bottle of ANYTHING (let alone formula - although I happily bottlefed DS2 so possibly just hormones/lack of sleep last night there), but feeling more positive now - but I would like to try and make the breastfeeding work.

of course it doesn't help that DH just doesn't "get" why I'm so desperate to keep up the BF - he says he knows the benefits, but he also points out (quite rightly) that it doesn't seem to have done DS2 any harm being bottlefed, and that I've at least given him 3 and a bit weeks which is better than nothing.

Not that I'm going to quit just yet - but it is harder to find the motivation to keep trying when I know that as soon as DH gets in from work later he's going to be saying "why don't we just stick with the bottle"......

god fanny you sound just like i did in that week!! I remember sitting on the floor in floods of tears dialling every bf support line I'd been given and NIONE of them answering! (Association of bfing mums never did return calls )

NCT counsellor advised me not to fight ds over it either but frankly all i was trying to do was hold him and show him where breast was! - he was doing the fighting all by himself

think someone else said "growth spurt" which tbh I think is code for "lo's behaving weird and we don't know why"

anyway one day it just suddenly cleared up and he went back to normal, happy and content. for NO REASON. hang in there, get help if you can. And if he doesn't settle in a few days, then bottle is of course FINE.

you could try expressing alot of milk a bit before feeding so he can still get some milk but it doesnt come out in such a big rush.

I know bottle is fine - DS2 adored his bottles, I just really wanted to make it work this time.

DH has just given him a bottle and I'm sat here in tears as DH seems to think "I" was the one that was making DS3 not drink it properly when I was trying

Haven't had time yet to read all the responses on this thread but wanted to say I completely sympathise FA. Have had to give some formula top ups to DD as a couple of times couldn't get her to take from me (after hour and half of trying and her screaming and me getting upset) and had nothing expressed at that point in time. She's preterm and has had jaundice and is generally sleepy, so sometimes find latching on difficult, or will latch on but not have energy to suck. I got loan of an electric pump from hospital yesterday, so yesterday evening and through night, I would try her on breast and if she wouldn't take I'd express and give via bottle. Hoping that today may be able to get a bit ahead and end up with some in reserve so she doesn't have to wait while I express if she won't take directly. And am getting more support from midwife and attending classes later in week to help with latch on etc, so hopefully this will improve.

But my MAIN POINT is to say you're not alone, and to keep trying. I've been so emotional over this and have to keep telling myslef I'm not a failure and the most important thing is that she feeds, so I do understand how upsetting it can be. I feel better knowing someone else is having similar problems, so thank you and good luck. I'll read more of this thread later, and hope things improve for both of us, and all others who are having problems.

well a mixed night (literally). Went to bed very upset as DH wanted me to switch completely over to formula. He woke up when I put him down so I dutifuly got a bottle and warmed it - he wouldn't take it from me so I decided to try and latch him on - and he took it and after a few minutes dozed off suckling (this was about 12.30am) . He woke just before 3 and again I tried latching him on to no avail (didn't let him get upset though) got a bottle and tried in vain for about 45 minutes - he took about 1/2oz.......managed to latch him on reasonably easily and he slept until just before 7 this morning - same thing again - except this time he actually took 2oz.

He woke again at 8.55 (we were both still tucked up in bed) - wide awake looking at me with his beautiful eyes and rooting so I tried latching him on - took a bit of faffing (no crying though) and he fed for about 10 minutes before falling asleep at 9.10 - I crawled out of bed and he's still there - asleep.

DH has agreed that I can keep trying with the breastfeeding - but I've had to promise him I won't let DS3 get distressed (I already explained no more fighting with him) and offer a bottle if he won't take the breast.

So we're getting there (I hope).

fanny - you are on the right track!

I do sometimes suggest the following - stay off the internet for a day (or more) while you just get on with patiently letting it sort itself out

thanks tiktok - not sure I can stay off the internet - it's my one 'respite' when I've actually got DS3 to sleep/lie on his own (rather than in my arms) and the other 2 DS's are doing my head in .

We've had a good morning - he's had a couple of feeds from me - just had to give him a bottle 1/2hr ago though which he took 2oz from - so only 2 bottles (4oz in total) since 7.20 this morning.

DH admitted before he went to work that he did actually enjoy giving DS3 a bottle last night - so we'll plug away at the formula until it's finished (only a small tin) and I'll continue expressing so DH can give him a feed late evening when he gets in from work.

I'm starting to believe (slightly) that we can actually make this breastfeeding malarky work (again). Hopefully if we can continue at least as we are, or perhaps better?, until next Wednesday I'll take myself off to the Sure Start Breastfeeding Group and get someone there to check my latch.

Had a reply from the, apparently according to her, only NCT Breastfeeding Counsellor in our area on the Yahoo group - but she's on Time Out at the moment so can't come and see me.

Anyhow, must get my load of washing on the line it's lovely and sunny with a good breeze so should dry nicely.

ooo just one question Tiktok - DS3 isn't really haven't as much milk from me at the moment as we're trying to get back on track - should I try and keep expressing to keep the supply up???

fanny - yes, expressing will help maintain a good supply during this blip.

thanks - thought so - but just wanted to check before I got the pump out again (and spend a fortune on the bags to store it on - can't believe how much they cost - nearly fainted in Boots yesterday when I was looking!).

FannieAnnie - Hi! I know the answer to that one! Express as much as you can. You can always freeze it to use later on, and it will keep your supply up. Expressing never gets as much out as the baby would, so it's good to express lots.

(You can also mix 50% EBM with 50% formula whilst you are using up the formula, so that he doesn't get too used to the formula taste!)

I expressed for 7 weeks with ds1 before he latched on properly. It's a bit of a fuss, but good to know that you are keeping your supply up in the meantime.

NQG - thanks for that - good to hear from someone who's expressed for that long and managed to sort of the breastfeeding part of it.

I've been swapping between EBM and Formula when he has his bottles (when the EBM is available - until I've been to town just now I don't have anything to store it in in the freezer). I'm hoping if I can get a good enough supply in the freezer and he continues to keep agreeing to at least sort of latch on an get something from me that we can ditch the formula - I know a few people who've had babies recently and a few of them are bottle feeding and hopefully are using the same as us so I'll just pass the spare on.

Good to know that even after 7 weeks your DS finally managed to latch on properly

NQG - again, it's encouraging to know that LOs can latch on after a period (even quite a long period) of bottles. That's been my worry the past day or so, that if we give DD bottles, even when they contain expressed breast milk, that it'll encourage her to prefer bottles to breast, so she'll be less likely to latch on in future. Midwife tells me that's unlikely to happen and that overall she will take to the breast (when she's strong enough to) for reasons of comfort, being close to Mum etc, even if it's harder work for her than sucking on the bottle. So thank you for backing this up!

oooo good progress this afternoon - popped to town and hoped I'd get back before he woke up as I didn't have any bottles (of anything!) prepared to take with me - of course he woke up and started screaming in the middle of Morrisons - so I went to the cafe and got DS2 and myself a drink and took him out with great trepidation - he latched on and had a quick 10 minute feed (he would have stayed on longer but he'd dozed off although still occasionaly sucking and I had to get DS1 from school so HAD to leave). OK he's just woken up again but at least he took enough to be satisfied for the short while

well done FA. Some positive signs here too, she took 15 mins at lunchtime. Had to give expressed milk this afternoon but was really pleased that she'd latched on again after several failed attempts.

Well done both of you! Have you checked out whether there is a la Leche group near to you? They can have some good local groups. I had some great help from our breast feeding clinic, but I also just sat day after day watching other mums feed and eventually managed to copy one of them!

keep on posting. Best of luck.

there is a la Leche Group - but it's in Northampton (only a 20 minute drive away)........but I don't drive.

Things seem to be continuing to be on the up here - I gave him a feed at about 5.30 he finally "dropped off" (as he'd fallen asleep as per normal) at 5.50 so I popped him on the sofa - and he's still there!!!!

don't know about la leche, but have been told that the hospital at oxford has a good clinic on Mondays and Thursdays, so will be going there and there's a local BF group meets on Fridays, so will be goin g there too.

Great news. The Oxford clinic is brilliant. Do go in.

well now I've stopped being quite so emotional about it all we've decided to mix-feed DS - he's only been waking 1 or 2 times (depending on whether you class 5.30am night or morning LOL) in the night since he was born and does most of his feeding during the day/early evening.

Last night DH gave him a bottle (of formula) at 11.50 and he slept through until 3 (as I predicted ), DH then gave him another bottle and he slept until 6 (again as I said he probably would - that was what he was doing with his breastfeeds) and then came into bed with us (yes he actually slept independetly for the first time last night!) and I fed him. DH also slept in the bed with me for the first time since DS3 was born too!

DH is giving him a bottle atm (as I was in the shower and he woke up bawling LOL), but on the whole we're going to go for breast during the day then bottle last thing before bed and when he wakes up in the night.

Milk supply already feels like it's building up nicely again and he's latching on without too much fuss again too .

SO - happy families all round again - he's still getting the benefits of breastmilk, DH can give him a bottle (and get him settled in the cot) at nighttime, we both get to sleep in the same bed too!!