Ok now I´m REALLY struggling to even get to 6 weeks...

[maveta]

I´ve posted before about the various problems I´ve been having with breastfeeding (cracked nipples, thrush, tongue tie, raynaud´s) but am reaching breaking point. Ds will be 6 weeks on saturday, on friday we are due to see a consultant about the tongue tie but am not sure if he will do anything about it or if we will be referred again. I wanted to at least hang on until then but my nipples are increasingly painful and one has now developed a blood blister. It gets to the point, after about 45mins, where I literally can´t take anymore and have to take him off the breast. I´m worried he´s not getting enough milk but the pain is too much. (weight gain has been fine in general, bit of a dip last week but, pending confirmation at weigh-in tomorrow, think we´re back on track)

I want to breastfeed so much, I´ve never imagined bottle feeding and I´m feeling so sad at the thought of having to give up so early. I have given him a bottle of formula here or there (now 3 in total) and I´ve felt horrible about it every time. It doesn´t seem right to give him powdered milk and as convenient as it would be to bottle feed in that anyone could feed him, I kind of LIKE being the only one that can feed him, I LIKE that special connection and the way we look at each other when he feeds which I don´t get when he takes a bottle.

I want to try and get through the next few days til the appt,the LLL counsellor I called suggested feeding off the better side (though he is never full off that side alone so am left a bit confused about how to fill him up - i can´t just leave him on there indefinitely cos even the better side is painful) and expressing off the other. If that doesn´t work, I might have to come to terms with bottle feeding. It just seems like the tongue tie is more and more of a problem, he really fights the breast, ´clicks´ on the nipple, slips off, gets frustrated etc etc and it´s worse all the time. I feel so angry that I knew he had TT at 6 days at it has taken them this long to do anything about it. The paed. gp is totally dismissive that it could be causing teething problems.

This is pretty long winded but I just needed to pour it out, if anyone has been through similar and can advise or just share, it would be great to hear.

apologies for the typos it's late

Blimey mylittleimps. Well done you! I just couldn't have continued for longer than I did, the pain was too much for me. Plus the little sucker (or should that be non-sucker?) was almost impossible to feed in any case.

whereabouts abroad would you have gone mylittleimps? Maveta is n Spain and they seem very reluctant to do anything, other thsn the UK, where should she be looking if she does go private?

the memories have all come flooding back reading the OP! it was such a nightmarish time, unless you have tried feeding a TT you just have no idea that it is impossible to not get sore nipples and everything else however hard you get baby to latch on the best he/she can (and it is more boys it affects)

jsut wanted to add, i also found the advise in my research was NOT to use nipple shields as the baby found it harder to latch on feed efficently

Nipple shields were a godsend for me though because I became too terrified to latch him on directly. I did wean him off them though after a couple of weeks when I was brave enough.

it does seem very common, Maveta is one of 3 ladies from our April thread to have had a TT problem

There were three on our July thread as well.

it's nearly 5 years ago but canada rings a bell 9attitudes are different),

i'll see if i can find ds's appointment card and who the consultant was at Nottingham, he was so very lovely, can't believe i can't remember his name he was so so lovely and understanding and a life saver (wellsanity saver), she could then find out where he treats privately if thats the route she needs to take.

but i had also sent a letter out to the hospitals all over with his symptoms and a photo and you know by their response how they view tongue tie.

I havent had time to read the other posts so sorry if this has already been said. Calendula cream is lovely for cracked nipples. I had a blood blister too. Just put calendula cream (same consistency as body shop lip-balm) on after every feed. My baby didnt mind about the taste at all- didnt seem to notice. Also, I know advice in the UK is different, but in Japan (where everyone breastfeeds), no-one feeds their baby for 45 minutes. Its just a few minutes on each side. Basically this is the advice I was given by a lactation specialist (and Im still exclusively breastfeeding at 8 months):
Feed on one side until the sucking slows down (this means the baby has started on the fatty hind-milk, I think). This us takes about 5-6 minutes for me. Then swap the baby to the other side to finish the feed. Depending on how hungry the baby is, this can last between 5 and 20 minutes. Then next time you feed, alternate sides.
Im not suprised your nipples are sore if the baby is latched on for 45 minutes at a time. Others may have had success with 45 minute feeds, but thats not the advice thats given here, and most people breastfeed more than a year. Ive checked the advice with different women (because 5 minutes or so seemed too little), but they all said, yes just a few minutes on each side. Of course the feeds are more frequent if you do this, but its so good for the health of your breasts.

maveta - found the file and the name and also the letter which i sent out to various hospitals.

please note my son was completely tt, the first consultant we were sent to refused to even look inside ds's mouth and all the evidence we found including that of English origin was when the ankyloglossia was complete (class IV) (less than 3mm of free tongue) then all agree it should be freed.

i included the following in the letter:

1. breastfeeding labourious and lengthy. xxx unable to maintain a vacuum and struggles with swallowing, as a result he fills with an enoromous amountof wind. he also regularly falls to sleep on the breast as it tires him out getting enough food. weight gain is more down to perseverance and technigue xx and i have developed.
2. the frenulum is attached at the tip of the tongue and the base of the lower gum. there is no free tongue 3 the middle of the tongue has an indent developing he cannot stick his tongue out, stuggles to protrude it as far as his gums and cannot reach the roof of his mouth. 4 .it is heart shaped when extended, lifted or crying
3. xx drools excessively
4. the outside of his lips are never wetted.

concerns are:
1 extremely concerened a foked tongue is developing
2 understand that notching of the tongue is an indication of future problems
3 his ability to maintian good oral hygiene
4 a diastema occuring when his teeth start to come through
5 his ability to pronounce the majority of words for instance those containg th,d, l, s, n and any assimilation of those letters
6 his confidence,s chooling and work affected by bad teeth and speech difficulties
7 his ability to continue to thrive
8 his ability to swallow effectively
9 his ability to lick (his lips, icecream etc)
10 his ability to join in childhood games eg sticking his tongue out, blowing raspberries

what i didn't include was that he wouldn't be able to gave a good snog and anything else his tongue might be need for for that matter later when he was older (probably because i didn't want to think about him getting up to that sort of thing just yet arghhh!)

on a lighter note ds2 hurt like hell when he latched on because he coukd get a vacumm and looking back made the pain caused by ds1's "latching " not seem so bad!!

Maveta - forgot to say if you want the name of ds's consultant (or the letter I wrote) i'll email you it/both

I'm sure you know but the advise of combating normal BF problems just doesn't deal with TT feeding because it is just impossible to get good technique because if the baby cannot extend the tongue out to a point it is a significant disadvantage to breastfeeding infants. but i believe the tongue should be freed rather than a bottle used (because of a variety of reasons)

MLI - I completely agree about standard bf advice not necessarily applying to TT babies. NCT BFC (who didn't check for TT) said DS's latch "looked" perfect and couldn't understand why I was in so much pain all the time. Looks can be deceiving it seems.

Sorry it´s taken me so long to get back on, been very busy. Decided to express off the painful boob and feed off the other. It all started off well this morning but as the day has gone on I´ve not been able to get much milk out of the ´resting´ boob and the other boob isn´t giving him enough. I let him feed for 15mins at a shot and take a short break but he asks for more so I let him go again but it´s obvious he´s not actually getting any milk, he´s just sucking. Try to give him a dummy but he doesn´t want that, he wants milk and I don´t have anymore in that breast. The other one at this late stage in the day is only giving me about 1oz in 20mins (compared to 3ozs at 4am this morning) which I give to him but obviously goes no way at all to filling him up.

So what now? No formula, no milk from the sore breast but no milk left in the good one. So what should I do???

Thanks for all the (continuing) moral support, it really helps spur me on and today started off really positive but as it´s gone on it´s been a more and more depressing cycle of feeding, expressing, feeding, expressing, I´m tired (was up for ages last night between expressing, feeding and settling him) and worn out. Feel just as bad now as I did when I posted yesterday.

Thanks Mears and mylittleimps for the info/refs. will have a better look if I get a chance..have to run but thanks to everyone else aswell for experiences/ suggestions, I am taking it all on board.

maveta - why do you say it is obvious he isn't getting milk when he is sucking? Don't think that because you can't express that he isn't getting anything. The amount you express is no indication of how much milk you have. Really do try hand expressing next time you are in the bath or shower - it really does work.

Have you tried breast compression when feeding BTW?

this is a great site for breastfeeding help

breast compression

This can be useful to get more milk into him

Twinklemegan, oh i so got that (plus oh but he's gaining weight you can't be having any problems) when i knew he wasn't latching on, luckily i had my mum for support she'd BF 6 of us!

maveta - i know you are close to tears over all this so so tired and in pain, you must get your ds referred - don't know how it works in spain

pls read my earlier post in detail, if all this applies use it when asking for a referral (as a reminder so you can really stand your ground) because if its the case his tongue really does need snipping.

if he has no free fenulum he won't want a dummy

also wind him lots after a feed and in between a feed, if he fills up with wind he wont have room for milk. ds1 gave out some belters - had to keep moving him into different positions to dislodges it (oh how it all comes back from memory )he will also fill with less wind on the breast tahn a bottle (from memory that bit so i think! )

if you get the wind out he will be more content in between feeds and then you can get some rest.

you really need to position the nipple in his mouth for him, difficult to explain in words!

ask for help from family/friends wrt housework so you concentrate on rest and feeding (not much of a life but it's not forever)

My DS was tongue tied (diagnosed at 5 weeks and snipped at 8 months). I took the what felt like momentous decision not to breastfeed but to bottlefeed. The stress and pain was such that the relationship between me and him was in danger of breaking down. As a first time mum parenthood is an immense shock and I just couldn't cope with this stress on top of everything else. I have to say, hand on heart, that bottlefeeding was our saviour. The look of relief on his face when he fed for the first time just made me sob as I realized how hard it had all been for him as well. I have refused to feel guilty about it - he's healthy, was breastfed for 5 weeks, and is now the best thing that ever happened to me. I use an organic baby formula, sterilize the bottles etc, and wish that I'd realized earlier that there is a choice. I never want to relive those first 5 weeks of his life again. I understand that breastfeeding is best - but sometimes best is different for some of us!

but solving TT is so easy, so why, when it is affecting BF (especially when the mother is attempting to BF) does it take so so long (and is so hit and miss if you find a consultant that agrees with the procedure) to get it snipped? this is what i don't understand, yes i've done the research and yes i know there are slight risks as with every procedure but the risks and disadvantages leaving it, to me, are so clear cut more of a danger for the chid.

Kate, you are so right. I ended up doing the same, but because I didn't know the reason for the agony I was in, and was told there was nothing wrong, I kept struggling on with breastfeeding whilst topping up with formula for months on end. I can barely remember the first few weeks of DS's life - I think I've mentally blocked it out and it makes me so .

TLI - I know, it's dreadful isn't it. When DS was finally diagnosed I was told that they wouldn't have snipped it even if it HAD been noticed much earlier. Like you I can't believe it - why allow a woman and baby's breastfeeding relationship to be destroyed when something can so easily be done? If I had known earlier I think I'd have gone private. Anyhow, the good news is DS's TT snapped on its own a couple of months back.

maveta
how are things?

Hi Mylittleimps - thanks for asking! Sorry an update has been delayed but it´s been a hectic few days around here. We went to the surgeon on friday and he clipped the tongue tie there and then! I was all prepared to argue it and started listing all the reasons why but he couldn´t have been less interested. He said ´if you are having problems feeding i doubt very much it would be anything to do with this´(!) ´but I´ll cut it anyway´. What a relief. He did cry, it obviously DID hurt but he settled soon enough. They wouldn´t let me feed him (contrary to everything I have heard) and made dh hold gauze in his mouth for 15 mins before we could go. It bled quite a bit and I was so pissed off because I´m sure if I had fed him it would have staunched it quicker. Anyway, the nurse told us to wait another 15mins to feed him but sod that, as soon as I got out of there I stuck him on.

The difference was immediate, it was almost totally painless and what pain/ discomfort there was, was more due to weeks of sensitive and sore nipples than the current latch. I´m SO relieved, his feeding seems quicker and more satisfying for him and easier for me. It´s still not 100% straightforward but he´s only 6 weeks and we´re still figuring it out, although I´m sure we´ll still have hurdles, I feel like we´ve got one big one out of the way. I´ve got renewed hope that I can actually do this..

Well done!

great news , hope you've turned the corner now.

maveta - write to the surgeon and tell him, won't you