5 weeks in and still struggling

[spydie]

DD2 is 5 weeks on Tuesday, and I'm still really struggling with her latch.

Worse on one side, she just won't open wide enough and ends up attached to my nipple and not much else. Nipple comes out lipstick shaped and very sore, even the better side it still comes out misshapen. Getting the latch right is even worse at night, last night it took 25 minutes to get her on for one feed. I gave up on another feed and she had a bottle of ebm and I just pumped as I'd gotten to a point where I couldn't tolerate the pain anymore.

I've had a few blebs and blocked ducts on my right side as a result of all this, and most nights end up in tears. Been to breastfeeding support, phoned helplines and we had a private LC out last week who was the most helpful. She said she had a posterior tongue tie, but as she was able to get her to latch deeply, said she wasn't sure if the tt was actually an issue or not. The trouble is, as hard as I try, I just can't replicate the latch that she achieved, it's like I need an extra pair of hands to latch her on (hence DH has ended up helping and we get a better latch but it's still not perfect), particularly at night as she thrashes around and arches away from me. Or she just slips off entirely or onto the nipple, so I'm constantly having to relatch her.

We are going to get the LC back, but I'm pretty sure I can't carry on like this. I really wanted to bf as I failed very early on with DD1 and I struggled with that mentally and still do tbh. I can't help but think that even if we had the tt corrected, it's more of a positioning issue I.e me.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Also, starting to consider feeding bottles of ebm at night and just pumping for those feeds.... right now it's taking longer to latch her on and then feed her then it would to just pump, and DH can give the bottle. And it might mean my nipples are less sore by morning!

Please, please don’t think it’s you. This sounds very much like tongue tie. I would seriously look at getting the tt divided. Even if you do pump, tt can cause problems with ffing, Weaning, speech and sleep. My DS’s wasn’t Diagnosed till much later and ended up having years of SLT on and off.

There’s a list of tt practioners here but please don’t let this knock your confidence

Have you tried the flipple technique? Laid back feeding also encourages a deeper latch.

JJJ so hard to not blame myself though and I feel like if I could only get the positioning and latch right, it'd all be ok. Thanks for the link, the LC we had out is listed on there, we need to go back to her this coming week.

Ditchingthedye yes, tried that and some improvement but not a miracle cure sadly.

Hope you get the support you need. If you look in the MN archive there should be a few threads on establishing BFing after the division

Apologies if you do this already but you cannot overstate the importance of having the baby brought to the breast, with you in a completely comfy and relaxed posture. The advice does say this but It never crossed my mind that I wasn't quite doing it, and midwives all said my hold was good. One day a HV surrounded me in pillows to hold the baby right up to me, almost handsfree, and it literally altered the latch there and then as I could see the baby so much better! It was a revelation!

You could try YouTube, there are loads of videos on there which were very helpful to me when I was trying to get a visual of how to achieve the latch (and I was a bit shy in seeking out support). I also found at about 6 weeks, his mouth suddenly seemed big enough to latch on a bit more lazily without it hurting. Technically maybe should have been relatching, but it was never difficult or painful after that point.

You sound very down in your OP and it's totally understandable. It's so hard when you're in a halfway house between 'almost cracked it' and 'cant quite get it'. I was consumed by it, and determined to get over the line until it 'clicked'. It's only with hindsight (having stopped voluntarily about 3 months in for other reasons) that I truly realize that breastfeeding is not worth any heartache. My baby hasn't suffered for being on formula at all. Still the same happy chappie. I'm sure you'll crack it but I hope you wouldn't feel negative about stopping if you need to

Hi, I had similar issues with my first daughter and our wonderful lactation consultant suggested nipple shields to use as a temporary measure. They worked wonders and helped my daughter latch immediately. I used them until nearly 3 months before I realised my daughter could latch perfectly without them. With my second daughter (now 6 weeks) I found she struggled to open her mouth wide enough to latch so I hand expressed a little to take the pressure before trying to latch her on. This worked wonders in the early days. Nipple shields are amazing though, despite the bad rap they sometimes get, I would have probably given up with BF without them with my first. Whatever you do though, don't beat yourself up about it. You've given your LO 5 weeks of breast milk which is a huge achievement in itself. Good luck.

I had horrendous pain until 6 weeks. He's now 13 weeks and it's been fine since then, no more lipstick shapes or blocked ducts.

I'm convinced that it's because their mouths get bigger so they can get more nipple in if they have tongue tie (which he does). It was the same with my first, the pain stopped within 24 hours from lessening.

You can bottle feed if you want, as long as baby is fed you're doing a great job.

Thanks all for your replies. I must confess I've re-read my OP and I didn't put in that she also has a high palate. Sorry to be a drip feeder... can I claim sleep deprivation as the reason

@shirleyschmidt yes, been trying to have lots of pillows and cushions and to relax. The LC did show us but again just seems impossible to prop myself up the same way when I'm by myself, I mean how hard can it be to organise a few pillows!?

I do feel so down. And I feel like I'm really not enjoying breastfeeding. I've had days, earlier on, where I've really enjoyed it, but now it has taken over life and I feel like I spend virtually no time with my eldest daughter, and when I do I'm so low that I'm just a miserable cow.

@Eh112 yes have a pair and have been trying to use them. I find she doesn't draw any more breast in though with them on, and my breast feels fuller than normal afterwards, so I'm not sure she's able to get as much milk out with them?

@Gummygoddess I hope things suddenly get easier for us at 6 weeks, that's only another week. She was born at 37 weeks though so she's still pretty little... she's as big now as my DD1 was at a week old.

Thanks again all, just feeling very trapped and low right now and not sure what the right way forward is.

Have you tried a v shape pillow? Much better and more versatile than normal breastfeeding pillow IMO.
I can relate to taking over your life, that's how it feels. No sooner is one feed done than baby seems to want another one and it starts all over again!! It's 24/7 and nobody else can ever take over to give you any break from it.

I'd obsessively get DH to check the latch, while my daughter kept asking me to put the baby down and play with her. I felt so close to getting it, and loathe to stop as I'd committed so much time. With my first child it was a big fat fail from the first feed so I never really got started. If you get to 5 weeks you feel pot committed!

I still gave up after cracking it as even then I felt guilty for DD missing out on my time, and wanted to share feed duties with DH more. I've never looked back to be honest. It all feels so long ago! The baby doesn't care which way it's fed, and you don't want to get to a stage where they refuse a bottle, but you want to stop. Is there any reason you're so determined to stick it out if it's making you feel so low?

I haven't, will certainly look into one. At the moment even when she's not feeding, I feel pretty uncomfortable... nipples sore and boobs aching. Maybe that's normal though!? But it's like a constant reminder.

Uh yes, DH has been like my latch policeman... I know he's trying to help but he'll be telling me I'm not doing it like the LC did, or not to accept anything that isnt good enough and to stsrt again, so we've had a few clashes in the early hours of the morning.

I think it's mostly as not breast feeding DD1 was a massive contributor to PND first time round. I still carry the guilt and she's 2.5!! I can almost feel the guilt if I do stop, if that makes any sense. Yet with DD1 she was a brilliant sleeper, and life was actually pretty bloody easy in comparison, despite the 'hassle' of formula, bottles etc. I'd say it was easier, actually. I've got my husband at home for another 3 weeks, so I think I'm inclined to use that as my deadline. After that I don't have the luxury of him picking up the pieces any more

Have you got a footstool and do you always feed in the same place? Just asking as when DS was in NICU they had loads of those little step things around that toddlers use to climb up to the toilet. Every time DS was brought to me to feed I had my feet on a stool, a pillow behind my back and a V pillow under him. Hand expressed a tiny bit so he could smell it and then nose to nipple and a bloody good shove to get enough into his mouth. He also had TT. He was also actually concussed, and it hurt him to feed. I tried desperately for 3 weeks and then stopped because I just could not fucking manage one more second. It is such a strong drive to feed your baby that I think it’s easy to be consumed by it, at the expense of your mental health sometimes. I just wanted to say very gently that however you feed your gorgeous baby is totally up to you and there is absolutely nothing to feel guilty about if you decide to FF. wishing you the absolute best of luck whatever you decide

Hi OP I don't have any words of wisdom I'm afraid but I just wanted to comment as I'm going through practically the exact same thing! I'm a FTM to my 3 week old DD and ever since birth we have struggled with her latch. It takes me ages to get a good latch and she ends up getting so distressed that I often end up giving up and feeding her EBM. I'm pumping like mad so I have enough and to keep my supply going because at the moment I'm just not getting her on the breast at all.
We also paid for a LC and she managed to get her to latch but like you I just can't ever seem to replicate it with any ease. I get so upset when I can't get her on and it's really getting me down as well. The times I do get her on she doesn't stay for very long, she just seems to slip off or go to sleep really fast as if she's having to work too hard to get milk and getting really tired. LC thinks it might be a posterior tongue tie as well so just waiting for a referral for that.
Just want you to know that you are not alone and if you want to chat pls feel free to message me. I hope things work out for you and who knows maybe when they get a bit bigger they will latch easier (my dd has such a tiny mouth and she never seems to open it big enough!). I think giving her EBM at night is a good idea, just to take the pressure off. Well done for your perseverance and just know it's definitely not your fault. 💐

@spydie

Oh my heart hurts for you! It sounds like you are in a really hard and emotionally-drained, aching place. I first just want to tell you that your heart for and devotion to your babe is so very evident in this post. I can see that you are trying so very hard to care for your little one in the way you believe is best, and the level of self-sacrifice you have endured for your baby girl even in 5 weeks is so, so beautiful.

I also sense that you have a voice in your head that is being very unfair toward you. Please stop blaming yourself! From what I have read on tongue ties and oral restriction in general, they can have HUGE impacts on baby’s ability to latch and feed (as well as a whole range of other issues, not to mention poor mama being made to feel horrible!). Please don’t dismiss this factor and assume that you are the problem! Both for your sake and your little one’s. Make the decision you feel is best and trust your instincts, but from what you’ve shared, I would wholeheartedly recommend you pursue medical treatment of the tongue tie ASAP. Don’t let an LC or doctor dismiss this as a minor or non-issue.

It’s so so hard to get to the point where you are comfortable and confident breastfeeding. It takes even longer to get to the point where you don’t feel moments of resentment and feel like giving up (if indeed you ever reach that point!). Please don’t convince yourself you’re alone in these difficulties, or “a failure,” or “bad at breastfeeding.” Those are lies lies lies, mama.

I’ve been breastfeeding my little one (including expressed breast milk when needed or helpful, no formula) for 10 months now. It was so horribly difficult at times (difficulty latching for days, needed nipple shields for 5 months, multiple clogged ducts, multiple bouts of mastitis, back pain, difficulty figuring out comfortable positions, multiple UTIs from dehydration, countless arguments with dear husband due to mutual frustrations, nearly reaching the point of giving up more than once, weeks of absolutely CONSTANT feedings, etc.). Breastfeeding is HARD. It just is. You are NOT the problem. Please have faith in yourself and your baby. And in the power of fixing oral restrictions!!!

Last thing, be kind to yourself. Your poor heart sounds like it is in a really painful place right now. Please feel empowered to share all these emotions with your health visitor/GP. If Postpartum Depression is gripping you right now, it could be one more thing getting in the way of you and baby finding your breastfeeding happy place, not to mention the damage it could be doing to your heart and mind. You are doing so well at tending to your little one’s needs, don’t let your own needs go ignored.