2 week old I'm I ruining already our chances of a routine??

[OperaPanda]

Hi,
My LO will be 2weeks old tomorrow and I'm getting conflicting advice on length and frequency of her feeds.
She's gaining weight and I don't have any pain, so I'm not worried per se. I know she's tiny and I don't expect to be in a proper routine right now but I believe in establishing one slowly over the next few weeks and I'm unsure how to best do that.

Outside of the odd cluster feeding sessions, my DD often goes 2h30-3h between feeds at night and sometimes in the afternoon. But her feeds tend to be short: 10-15min max. She falls asleep at the breast.
During the day sometimes she wants to eat every hour.

Our NCT leader said she might just be an efficient feeder and to let her have short feeds. While I find it reassuring, I also know she doesn't believe in routine, ever, and that's not the route I want to take.
Meanwhile, the midwife and several parenting blogs/books recommend to work on getting longer feeds. But I seem to be failing. Or am I?

I tickle/annoy her, undress her, change her nappy, burp her, put her down and take her again when she's unsettled, put cold water on her face..it's such hard work and it usually takes 1h to get 20min of feeding altogether. She's very gassy and on infacol so then I need to burp her and keep her upright for at least 30min or she'll be uncomfortable. By the time I'm done, she often wants to eat again and has barely slept. Is that normal?

This morning we had:
9h45-10h25: 21min feed
I thought she was done as that was a long one for her
11h08-11h20: 12min feed
11h31-11h40: 8mim feed
12h40-12h47: 7min feed
She keeps asking for more when we put her down after burping!
IIt's 1.28pm as I type and she's asking for more :( she was fast asleep for about 15min.
I don't know if I should resume the whole tickling etc to get longer feeds here or if they're already top up feeds for the first one.

People believing in routine say that I'm creating a habit of snacking and that I'm setting ourselves for a hard few months ahead.

I also alternate between breasts but with such short feeds I'm not sure she's getting the hindmilk? When she does under 10min I try to put her back on the same breast to make sure she gets it. Is that the right thing to do?

Would really appreciate opinions/advice/reassurance from people who have a good routine.

Thanks so much and sorry for the long post!

I know it's hard but please stop stressing about what you "should" be doing or what other people think. Sounds like she's feeding on demand and doing well, as are you. At two weeks old her stomach is small so it will fill and empty a lot quicker hence the frequent feeds. This is perfectly normal. Speaking from experience (ebf mine until they were 11 and 13 months) it takes at least 8 to 12 weeks to really establish a sort of pattern with breastfeeding. And even then they might have a top up in between feeds. Sometimes it's because they are thirsty not necessarily hungry. As long as she's putting on weight, she's content between feeds and she's filling her nappy regularly you are doing absolutely fine. Xxx

Putting it bluntly, you may "believe in" establishing a routine over the next few weeks, but if your baby doesn't believe in it, forget it. No 2 week old on the planet is in a routine. Her needs re: food and sleep literally change daily at this age and you just need to go with it. Routine will be possible later, as in after 12 weeks or so. Not now.

She's doing fine and so are you. Don't make the both of you miserable because you have a preconceived idea in your head of what she's "supposed" to be doing.

You mentioned about getting the hindmilk, maybe try popping her back on the last breast she fed from he she's has only had a short feed?

Also, the keeping up right sounds like you're doing the right thing too.

At this age it is mostly as you say feed, burp, change nappy, nap, feed etc etc.

It will get easier, you're both learning and both doing well. Give yourself a break. Don't worry about timing her or routine just yet. I'll try and find the book I read on routines as found it useful once the feeding had settled at about 8 weeks.

Make sure you are drinking and eating enough too as that will effect your milk.

Hope that helps xxx

It is waaaay too early for routine! Just let her do what she needs to do - eat when she’s hungry, sleep when she’s tired. It will all settle down when she’s a bit older. Mine was like this until at least four months and is now at 15mos a little clockwork baby when it comes to routine.

Also don't stress about the hindmilk thing. It's overplayed. Research has basically shown that if you alternate breasts and feed on demand baby will get what they need.

She'll have no routine for quite a while yet!

In my admittedly limited experience of two babies, they set their own routine. But it takes time. 2 weeks old (or in the next few weeks) is far too early to expect anything but to be doing what she wants when she wants.
I hate to trot it out, but the phrase 'the baby hasn't read the books' comes to mind.

You sound like you're doing just great

You're stressing about something you cannot control. Feed her when she's hungry. It's that simple. If you fancy a drink do you ever look at your watch and say to yourself "actually, I won't have one. I had one 2.5 hours ago and I shouldn't be ready for another 90 mins so I'll just stay thirsty and wait"? I imagine not, so your baby won't too.

She is tiny. And she might develop into a proper little routine. She might not. But she's not read the books and the websites so you're just going to have to go with the flow here.

Lots of newborns have quick feeds. Try to drop your idea of what should be happening and go with the flow, but make it as easy and comfortable for yourself in doing it so you can both enjoy it.

Seriously do not worry for one minute about routine with a two week old. Trust your instincts - if you think she needs or wants feeding, then feed her!

Routine will come in time but I wouldn't even start giving it a moments headspace until at least twelve weeks. At least. You cannot teach a newborn bad habits, they simply don't have the mental capacity to 'learn' behaviour like that when they are so young. Same sort of thing when people tell off new mums for cuddling newborns constantly - 'baby will be spoiled!'. It's nonsense.

If I could do one thing for all new mothers, it would be to set every baby book about routines and what behaviour baby "should" be showing spontaneously on fire, and teach them to listen to and watch their specific baby, and explore their own instincts about what baby was telling them.

Seriously, OP. Routine can make life easier or at least more predictable... Later. Right now you have a new person with her own unique needs who doesn't know what she's "supposed" to be doing, but does know how to tell you what she needs. You'll gain far more from responding to and listening to her than from trying to get her to fit a template.

Ah thanks ladies! That's helpful. Yes she has lots of wet and dirty nappies.

By "believing in getting a routine" I meant at some point (as opposed to a few parents I know who are baby led for a long time, do a lot of baby wearing, cosleep until 2 etc).
But I admit I might have felt some pressure comparing my experience to my best friend whose 3weeks old breastfed baby slept through the night (and never stopped doing so, he's now 1year old). My mother also keeps telling me something is wrong but what does she know, I was bottle-fed...

Still, really nice to hear you think it's all good :) Thanks!

Sounds perfect. All 3 of mine were very efficient feeders and fed for 7-15 mins. Happy days!

Sounds right! I spent the first few weeks feeding, winding, changing on repeat. It's important to keep responding to your baby's hunger cues as in these early days you are establishing your milk supply. It is very normal to feel as though you are feeding all the time! Routine really isn't important at the moment - making sure your baby is healthy, happy and gaining weight, and looking after yourself too of course, are the key things. I have a 5.5 month old and honestly even now routines are very flexible - with feeding on demand, sleep regressions, teething and various coughs and colds, it's not always possible to do everything completely rigidly every day. Just try to relax and enjoy your little newborn. Congratulations too by the way!

A 3 week old baby should not be sleeping through the night. Frequent feeding is important in the very early weeks. Don't give anymore thought to what others are doing; trust your baby to let you know what's what!

Your baby is utterly normal! Gaining weight, eating when hungry, sometimes going 3 hours, sometimes not.
Please don’t stress your baby out by trying to impose some daft routine or following a book.
My baby is the same age as yours. I never time feeds, don’t even know when the last feed was really or how many times a day he’s feeding. I don’t care as he’s happy, healthy, putting weight on and a content baby

A friend of mine had one of those statistical freak babies that would cluster all evening and then sleep for a straight 7-8 hours from two weeks old. She was convinced my baby would totally do this too if I did all the same things she did. Nooooooope. Very very very occasionally, babies spontaneously sleep quite long stretches from an early age, but these babies are basically freaks of nature and not something people create by parenting "right".

Plus people of our mothers' and grandmothers' generation often have quite, well... Warped expectations of babies. Culturally there was quite a period in which the emphasis was on forcing babies onto a four-hour bottle-fed regimen very very early. This often involved leaving hungry newborns crying for hours, so yknow, let's all be glad we've mostly moved past that one.

I'm afraid to say, that regardless of what you'd like to do, 2 week old babies don't do routines. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to do it.

If your baby if feeding, sleeping and gaining weight, then they're doing what they're meant to do.

Around maybe 3-4 months, I found both of mine began to fall into more of a routine. Spacing out feeds a little bit, and sleeping for longer chunks.

Routines became easier once they started solids - having meals to structure everything else round somehow worked.

INeedNewShoes well my godson did sleep through the night at 3weeks (midnight to 6.30am) and was in perfect health, ebf with plenty of milk from my friend.
I won't try to replicate that and that might be a rare occurrence but I don't think we should say he shouldn't have slept through the night. I think it only shows every child is unique and many scenario can work if they're right for the baby.

Thanks all, I'll just embrace it. Happy to ride it as it cones really, I don't even find it thar hard if she's happy. It's just that so many people were telling me I'd be sorry in a few months time that I started doubting myself

Stop worrying all sounds normal. My son was a very quick feeder and the HV got in a right grump over it until she weighed him and saw he was a heffalump! Routine will come in time. I found it helpful to start with a bath time/bedtime regularly and let the rest fall into place from there but still too young at 2w. Maybe 6-8w when I did that. Relax and enjoy it, you're doing a great job.

Please, try not to worry. DS had no routine whatsoever as a newborn, we went entirely with the flow: eventually he fell into a routine naturally and now, as a toddler, you can set your watch by him. People are really silly about the things they tell new parents sometimes, they really are. I can only assume that they forget what it's like to have a tiny baby!

She will tell you what she wants her routine to be soon enough 😊

Forget about routines! It sounds like everything is going great. I'll have 4 under 5 in a few weeks and if new baby doesn't feed quickly they'll find themselves put in the bouncer pretty sharpish😂 The moment my last one pulled off I'd be gone and do you know what....it was the best thing. She gained weight, I'd not time to obsess about whether my boob was empty or not. And let me tell you babies are brilliant communicators when they're NOT done, you'll know all about it.

You're doing great and there's no such thing as a routine for a 2 week old, just the illusion of one.

I did move towards routines, but when DD was about 3-4 months. She got more predictable in terms of what she did when so I found that I was feeding her at similar times each day - it was noticeable as a lot of the groups I went to were 10-12 and I'd invariable feed her there at about 11.15, for instance.

It's better at this stage just to get to know your baby - if she wants feeding, feed her. Not all cries will be hunger, might be nappy, cuddle, reassurance etc but no point trying for a routine at this point. We encouraged a routine from three months by starting a simple bedtime routine for instance, and I started doing a dream feed at that point too.