Dh is really struggling with me breastfeeding, need some advice on how to help him.

[Olihan]

I didn't manage to successfully bf ds1 or dd (gave up at 3/4 weeks with both) but ths time, thanks to MN, ds2 is now 15 weeks and exclusively bf.

Dh was completely supportive whle I was struggling to get it established, never once mentioned formula, put up with the emotional mess I became afetr every weigh in (ds2 took 6 weeks to regain his birthweight), took over all the care for ds1 and dd while I fed, did all the housework, etc after he'd been at work all day while I did the evening cluster feeding and was generally a complete hero.

However, he's now finding it really hard because he can't do much for ds2. With ds1 and dd he did 50% or more of the caring when he was home, including the night wakings, nappy changes, bathtime, playing etc. He is a very, very, hands on dad and I'm really lucky in that respect. I think he's now getting very frustrated that he can't be as hands on with ds2 or develop the same bond as he did with the other 2.

He doesn't get in from work until 6pm, which is the usual witching hour. Ds2 is particularly grizzly at that time and often just wants a feed and bed. If I give him to dh for a cuddle he just cries and cries until I take him back and then he stops instantly. Understandably, dh is quite upset about this - last week he didn't see him smile once, until saturday morning .

Weekends are a bit easier but ds2 still seems to be very clingy to me and is a lot whingier when he's with dh. I don't know if this is to do with bf or whether that's just his temperament, no way of knowing that I guess.

Bathtime in the evening is out of the question because a) ds2 hates baths with a passion and b) he's usually too tired. He doesn't like having his nappy changed either, so poor dh feels as though everything he does upsets ds2.

He still hasn't mentioned formula, but I'm sure he's thinking it sometimes. I've started expressing at 10pm, and can usually manage 4-5oz, which dh then gives when ds2 next wakes. It depends a bit on ds2 though, sometimes he wakes earlier so I have to bf him and can't express and dh can't give a feed that night.

I don't want to give formula but I also don't want dh's relationship with ds2 to suffer. So, what do I do? I'm sure he's not the only dad to have felt like this, it's a whole new ball game to us though.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Olihan, just re-read your op and saw the part about ds just crying when your DH holds him. My dd cries when my DH holds her because he doesn't do it right (do I sound like a nagging wife?) He doesn't jiggle her just so, which is what she wants. He has got a lot better with practice, so perhapse your DH might like to have your little one for a defined period, say while you have a bath, so that he tries different ways to settle him?

This bf business honestly makes me feel like a first time mum sometimes, than goodness for MN.

Fio, he definitely deserves a big gold star for being a great daddy. I don't tell him enough but he's amazing.

UrbanDryad, have tried all sorts of things with the bath - baby bath, big bath, bath seat, no bath seat, with ds1 and dd, warm, cool, you name it but he just screams as soon as his bum hits water! He's not keen on nappy changes either, I think he just doesn't like being messed with . He's very dry skinned too so I don't do it more than once a week if that, which probably doesn't help.

Indith, the massage might be worth a try and will probably help his dry skin too, if we use almond oil or grapeseed. Will dig out the baby massage leaflet I got when ds1 was born.

Mears, you are so right, I do jump in and take over too quickly when ds2 is crying. I've done it with all of them and still do to a certain extent with the older two. I think I just feel like I 'know' them better because I'm home with them all day, iyswim. Will make more effort not to!

I'm sure you're all right when you say that him feeding or not won't make any difference but at this age all he really does is eat, sleep and cry so dh feels like a bit of a spare part I think.

Damn, pressed preview by accident, now can't see what else people said. Hold on....................

Hunker, he is just like your ds2, doesn't like anyone apart from me really. He'll tolerate it for a couple of minutes but then starts wailing and settles instantly when I take him back. It is odd in a 15 week old. (See, you did say something different to your first post ).

Mears, Aloha and macneil, that's a good idea. I think this weekend I'll just get dh to spend lots of time cuddling and carrying him (have got a coorie that's too big for me but probably perfect for dh)
and I'll take a step back and do nothing but the feeding. Hopefully it will also make him more confident holding him too, cazee, I think you've got a point about that.

Yellowrose, the ironic thing is, when ds2 gets into a real tizz when he's overtired but doesn't want to feed then dh is much better at calming him down. Probably because I get too stressed. We gave him the dummy at about 9 weeks when he started getting really cross when he wanted to suck for comfort but kept getting mouthfuls of milk!! So often he doesn't want milk, just me, it seems.

Peanut, he almost always does bedtime for the older two, which he loves, he just wants to see ds2 happy occasionally!

Thanks again, everyone for your help and ideas. You've made me feel so much better.

If he is just like my DS2, you are a lucky, lucky lady - DS2 went through the separation anxiety thing early (like I said, 3-5m) and is the sunniest chap going now. By the time he was 6mo he was being passed round like a beaming chubby parcel.

Seriously, it'll get better. And you're doing a sterling job of bfeeding

well done for the feeding.

Is there any reason why he is so grissly in the eveing? ( ds not huby!)

I mean, has he had enough sleep in the day? It's usually a sign of overtiredness.

I can empathise with the trying to rescue ds2 straight away when crying cos i did it loads and it really hacked off dh. Despite being the breastfeeding mother, sometimes you really have to step back and let your dh soothe/care for them because that's how they learn. And shoving a tit in their mouth every time they cry isn't the answer either ( i learnt the hard way)

I think the only was for your LO to feel more comfortable with your dh is if they spend more time together - and you may need to leave the hse for that to properly happen. Look at it in a positive way - you get some time to yourself whilst your hubby bonds with LO.

You may be surprised by the results

olihan - i bet you are very right about that. i was a very stressed mummy in the first few months (total lack of sleep and not knowing anything about babies !) and i am sure ds could sense my stress, whereas dh is the calmest, coolest man you will ever meet !

do step back and let your dh pick him up when he cries. dh used to do that too, because often i would sleep in the spare room, dh would come and wake me with babe in arms asking for a feed - - so i guess ds got very used to dh being the first to pick him up

ds got so very used to being passed around even among people he had never met, i have photos of him at one month and two months sitting on the laps of our friends he had never met before, so i am sure it is just a phase for your babe and soon he will love being in any one's arms !

I'd say to him 'give it 30 days and if nothing has changed then let's try formula' Babies change so quickly as you know, by this point the problem may well have gone away.

DS2 is probably trying to boost your milk supply and so wants to be close and nursing all the time.

Good luck

I accept that a Dad might not need to help with feeding in order to bond, but it does help from my experience. I fed DS expressed milk at the late feed from around 6 weeks - obviously his needs were paramount but think of the feeling you get as a Mum when your baby falls asleep content after a feed; such a rush of love. When you've returned to work after paternity leave, time with your new baby is very precious so I can see where the OP's H is coming from. I see my son (awake)from 7.30am - 8.00am on weekdays as I get ready for work. I'm convinced giving him that late feed helps him to trust in me.

Dad giving a bottle also gives your DP a chance to rest, and may help if you intend to use bottles at a later stage if you're returning to work.

None of this should detract from the great job Olihan is obviously doing or be seen as an argument in favour of formula. I just think as a socity if we want Dads to have a role in childcare, saying 'Oh, he can give solids from 6 months' is simplifying things a little. Imagine if you had to wait that long to feel involved...

hi olihan,. only just seen this and havent read the whole thread so apologies if i duplicate anything.

my dh felt a similar thing. to help we make sure
dh does the baths every night
dh gets dd when she wakes and bring her to me for b/f (i dont have to get out of bed
)
dh takes dd and puts her to bed when he is here (even if she is asleep/about to go after a b/f) - it can take a couple of goes but she is now used to both of us putting her to bed.
at the weekends dh takes both dds away from me and gives me a lie in. even when dd2 is grizzly

hth

also, my dd1 was a daddy's girl from birth. used to make me very sad but we are closer now.

i have a feeling dd2 will be a mummy's girl.

each baby is different and i guess both parents just have to find their 'niche' for what works and what doesnt and it can take some time...

This very good study shows that fathers who bath their children really do have a better relationship and that this translates into long-term behaviour benefits when their kids reach the teenage years - yes, maybe bathing your kids is a proxy for 'being involved' but it's a good proxy, as it's regular, fun, one-to-one and tender and loving.

read the research here

oh excellent, i hate bathing ds now because he hates water on his face when i wash his hair (i have tried everything, he still hates it !), so a good excuse to get dh to do baths every time then !

i have just emailed it to dh