Expressing for a Novice

[Demented]

I am currently b/f DS2 aged 3 weeks. Apart from a bout of mastitis resulting in a cracked nipple things seem to be going reasonably well (I do have a couple of queries which I will post separately). I am now starting to think about returning to my aerobics classes etc (when DS is 6-8 weeks) and would like to leave some expressed milk for him at the creche. This will be my first experience expressing, didn't attempt it with first DS. I have an Avent Isis breast pump and wondered if anyone had any tips.

The questions I have at the moment are:-

How much milk will he need? I am only leaving him for just over an hour but would be happier knowing he had something in case he is hungry and won't settle.

Would I be safe enough to leave the expressing to the day before the class or would I be better to start collecting small amounts for a few days beforehand?

Also DS has not had a bottle before, do you think it would be OK to leave this to the nursery nurses at the creche to give him his first bottle? Is he likely to kick up a stink or would it be better to leave it to them as he associates me with the breast? (He was not fussed about a nipple shield we tried a couple of days ago).

If anyone can help or has any other suggestions about the expressing it would be great to hear from you.

Thanks in advance.

Its very difficult to gauge how much breast milk to leave, but I would think that if you're only leaving him for a couple of hours or so, a 4oz bottle should be plenty.

I should practise expressing for a while beforehand, if you haven't done it before, as it does take a bit of getting used to. You'll also then know how much you can express in a session, and how many sessions you need for a bottle full. You can always freeze what you've expressed, and save it for emergencies!

I express at work, while my baby is at nursery, and can get 4-6 ounces every 3-4 hours, but everyone is different, and you will have your baby at home feeding, so you probably won't get as much at a sitting.The best time to express is first thing in the morning, as the hormone levels are highest then- perhaps try to express after your baby's first feed.

As for the first bottle... don't leave it too late. Due to misinformation from a midwife I didn't try a bottle for my dd until she was 11 weeks old, and it was a real struggle. You should be fine giving the occasional bottle (of EBM) now, as long as ds has settled into breastfeeding well. Try giving some yourself, and if this doesn't work, let your husband/partner/ mother/friend try. I wanted to be sure that dd would take milk from a bottle before I left her with anyone.

I watched, with amusement, a friend microwave a bottle of formula the other day.

Anyway, I would have thought that just 2 oz is fine if you're only gone for 1 hour, and I would express it the day before or even the same morning, if you can, so it's as fresh as possible.

Not everyone lets down for pumps, so you'd better try it first before you sign up for the class???

Thing is,
You'll be more comfortable (in the chest, I mean, especially during the more energetic exercises!) if you breastfeed first, anyway. so if you can feed just before the class and just after, I'd be really surprised if you couldn't skip the bottle completely.

I would definitely try that, myself, before going to the trouble of expressing or worrying about whether the baby will accept a bottle.

Demented, don't worry about leaving your baby for an hour without milk. However, I would definitely start the expressing well before you actually need the milk. I only managed to get an ounce or two the first couple of times I expressed with the Avent hand pump. Eventually, I could get out 8 oz from one breast while my son fed at the other. As sobernow suggested, it helps to get relaxed (warm bath) before you start expressing. I also would express after we had an evening out and ds had missed his feed, because my breasts were super full. I always kept a small supply in the freezer for nights that we went out and left ds with the babysitter. She just microwaved it. At 3 weeks I'm sure 4 oz will be plenty. Eventually I found my ds could consume 8 oz at a time, but probably didn't really need that much. I wouldn't worry about letting the nurses give your ds his first bottle. I have never given a bottle myself to my ds as the breast was more convenient. The bottle feeding of the breastmilk was left to the chilminder and my dh. Ds never had any problems with the bottle as he is a pig .

Agree with Zebra and Sofia! If you feed beforehand and after, you almost certainly won't need to leave any milk. However, if it makes you feel happier in your class, express. I used to do it at work and found the Isis pump excellent, though it took quite a few pumps for the message to get through to my body to produce milk. But when letdown happened, I got plenty. I think 2oz will be plenty for such a short time. Do it in advance so you won't be stressed by having a 'deadline' and you can keep expressed milk for, I think, 24hours in the fridge and ages in the freezer. I never warmed milk, just gave at room temperature which has been a godsend as he now doesn't care about temperature. I also think it would be fine for the nurses to give him his milk if he wants it. BTW I am totally in awe of your even thinking about exercise so soon. I haven't done a thing since ds was born 9 months ago -and it shows. Feel guilty now...

Message withdrawn

You can also try breast shells to collect any milk that leaks from the other side as you feed.

The advice here is good and I'm lapping it up as I, too, missed the window of opportunity to get ds to accept a bottle. He was a frequent feeder too and would not accept any sort of false nipple. I tried around 4 weeks and left my mother and dh to some frustrating trying to feed sessions. Being out of the house for these events is easier. #2 is due soon and I'm going to try some form of mixed feeding as soon as possible this time, it should help that dh and I are living in the same country again.

Def go for the excercise bit and don't skimp on the sports bra(s). I was never overly endowed and was amazed at the '2 puppies in a sack' sensation from my chest. I was straight off to the gym shop for some chest hugging bras and long support tops to hold and cover my stomach. Also treated myself to a new pair of trainers as you ligaments are still soft. I found myself prone to sprains around the 5-6 month stage when my periods returned and the relaxin was really on the way out.

It's a good time to go back to exercising, if you can get the motivation to get out of the house for a certain time. Your heart is supposed to be pretty fit after months of pumping the extra blood around while your leg muscles were working at carrying the extra weight of the baby etc.

I'd love to hear how you get on and pick up your tips!

One tip I was given is that if your baby usually has one breast per feed, the amount you express from one breast will be roughly one feed. This is pretty damn obvious now I think of it but it didn't occur to me before someone told me!

I think EBM keeps for 24 hours in the fridge and 3 months in the freezer. Neither of mine ever liked frozed (and thawed!) breast milk though Not sure how they could tell the difference. You can thaw it under a hot tap but must then use it within about an hour as it's been warmed.

One word of caution about expressing in the early days is that expressing does not stimulate milk production quite as well as feeding so make sure you're still feeding enough so there's no detrimental effect on supply. Shouldn't really be a problem though.

Would difintely advise someone else gives your baby the bottles. I never had much success giving bottles to mine - and what was the point? If I was there, I could feed them myself with less hassle!

I'd get going with expressing before joining the class to get the hang of it - you may not get much first time round! There is a knack to it. I could only express if my sons were not around and I couldn't hear them, completely the opposite of advice to be looking at your baby or a photo of them.

I used the Avent Isis too and found it wonderful. I used to express into their disposable bags for freezing but thaw into and feed from standard bottles as I had load of problems with leakage.

Hope this helps!

Like the others, I would definitely try expressing well in advance of when you're going to need it. And like Bloss, I would agree with trying the bottle sooner rather than later. My ds was having bottles of EBM from an early age (often straight from the fridge) so he was never fussy about how he got it, what temperature it was or who he got it from.

However, I also agree with Sofia and Zebra that if you feed him just before and after the class you will feel more comfortable and he's not likely to need fed for the hour you're away(although for peace of mind, it would be good to leave a supply to be used if necessary).

If you're near Glasgow, the City Council runs a load of Post Natal classes across the city, with creche facilities where they are used to dealing with very young babies.

If you were given a HEBS booklet on feeding while you were in hospital, I'm sure it gave much longer periods for how long EBM will last in the fridge or in the freezer - I think it said that the latest research had shown that the anti-bacterial propoerties of the milk protected it for longer than had been thought.

I don't think I ever exceeded 24 hours in the fridge but I did keep EBM in the freezer for longer (up to 6 months). If I wasn't going to use the milk quickly, I didn't see the point in keeping it in the fridge.

I read on another board that there's some debate about the "shelf life" of EBM and there's not really been any major research. The general (completely non scientfic and not based on any research) consensus on the other board was that uncontaminated BM contained little bacteria harmful to humans as it is all natural to humans - it stated as a conversation on why breasts don't need sterilising!

Anyway, I would imagine the limits given have a fairly wide safety margin built in.

I read you could keep it for up to 8 days in the fridge. As DS appears to hate the taste of frozen EBM but doesn't mind fresh, I've often kept a bottle in the fridge for a day or two. There was also an earlier thread on ways to express effectively here .

I don't think my pelvic floor is up to an exercise class - and this is 8 mths later :-(

There is no window of opportunity for a baby to take a bottle...people's experiences differ, and babies who have happily taken a bottle every day or every other day can sometimes decide they really don't want one anymore and want breast only. Other babies who have never had a bottle take to one without problems at several months old. There is no reason to start expressing and giving a bottle by X weeks, for fear of missing the chance to ever give a bottle. Bloss, saying 'four weeks' is just too dogmatic, and may worry some mothers unnecessarily.

Believe me, I know what I am talking about. I have spoken to hundreds (literally) of mothers who are planning to/have already gone back to work, or who want to give bottles for some other reason, and have heard a huge variety of different experiences. You cannot predict who will find this easy and who won't, nor give some sort of cut off time.

If a mother wants to try a bottle several weeks before she needs to, then that is fine....but she doesn't need to worry if the baby refuses. I speak to too many women whose early weeks of bf are spoiled by the anxiety that they will never be able to get the bottle into the baby, and who feel they have to have a tussle every day until it happens.

Babies who really, really don't like bottles (despite the various strategies) can take a cup/egg cup with help, if they're on solids, the solids can be made sloppier with added ater/EBM/formula.

Just to annotate what tiktok said -- DS refused bottles.

DD was willing, but couldn't figure the damn thing out!

Both babies took a soft spout (Avent system) eagerly from 4.5 months.
The funniest thing about my kids is they think Dummies are chew toys...
-j

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DS2 took his first bottle happily at 6 weeks and the refused them, with "you're murdering me" screaming, until about 12 months! He's happy with them now (or rather "it", he only has a bottle at bedtime and beakers in the day).

Not really relevant but I found this the other day. It's American - I wonder if it really is better than a standard bottle??

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I keep saying this but Mumsnet is great. It is so much better to hear from real people than read the theory in a book (although I do like to read all that as well).

I will feed him before the class in the hope that he won't need the bottle but it would be peace of mind knowing that it is there if he is starving and after making the effort to attend the class I don't want to be called out of it to feed him. I'll see how we go, good to know that if I can only get a couple of ounces that would probably be enough to tide him over. I assume that if the milk is not used but is fresh (I think I will try and express the bottle the day before as the class is in the morning) and kept in a cool bag I could just freeze it if it is not used. This is probably a really daft question but do you just freeze it in the bottle, with a sealing disc on it instead of a teat?

I know I am probably mad for wanting to go back to exercise so soon but I only started exercising when DS1 was 16 months and have found it makes such a difference to the way I feel and I am desperate to get back, I am just going to try one class a week initially and build up again as I feel ready.

Thanks for the advice about the bra, I hadn't thought about that and my old sports bra is a couple of cup sizes too small now.

Good advice as well about feeding him before to relieve the pressure. I am quite leaky and had visions of people slipping in pools of milk .

I will let you all know how I get on with the expressing and the class, planning on going three weeks tomorrow.

I'm afraid I am too lazy to follow Bloss' advice, a big reason for my b/feeding is that I cannot be bothered will all the sterilising etc, but hopefully this is decision I won't live to regret but I have no great plans to leave him for over an hour for a while anyway so I suppose if he doesn't take it we'll just need to get used to planning things so he doesn't need fed in that hour.

Thanks again to everyone!

You can just freeze in the bottle with a sealing disc, or if you'd rather (or if you haven't too many bottles) you can use breast milk storage bags.

I've been told you can keep breast milk in a fridge for up to 5 days, and in a freezer for 3 months.(it was someone on mumsnet who told me that - mears, I think!)

As long as the milks not been heated or your babys not tried to drink it and refused it should be OK to freeze. If the teat has been in his mouth at all, there is a chance that bacteria has entered through the hole.

I used plastic disposable bags to store the breastmilk in. They fit in a holder thing. The whole lot came with the hand breastpump. It meant less sterilizing and also I could store lots of bags in the freezer. Just be careful when freezing and defrosting as they are nice and stiff when they are frozen, but you forget that they go all floppy when defrosted. My husband managed to spill the very first 4 ounces I squeezed out of my breast this way. (i was not very happy!).

Tissy - you are right I did say 5 days in the fridge (non used) and 3 months in the freezer.
Personally I have given milk that has been in the freezer for 6 months with no ill effects. To me it is liquid gold and should never be thrown out. Sometimes my stock when working was low so I would resort to stockpiled EBM.
I know that older EBM has different properties for a younger baby but it is still better than formula IMO. It also does not matter when you are at home later to give fresh milk staright from the bar

Everyone's advice is brilliant. I must remember and ask them not to try the bottle with him unless he is obviously desperate for something. Just hope I'll be able to get something out of them now!

if keeping frozen EM please please remember to shut the freezer door propery whenever you open it. It's heartbreaking to have to throw away accidentally thawed milk All that hard earned "freedom" poured down the sink!

I'd like to say it was a mistake I only made once but I can't...

Soupdragon, you poor thing. Did this myself with DS1's purees, this was bad enough, don't think I could bear it if it was EBM. Will try not to do this!

Just a quick update. I was at my aerobics class yesterday morning. The class was fine the biggest problem was my brain! (not unusual ) I was all trussed up, breast pads, a supportive bra and a top with a built in bra, boobs barely moved!

I took all of your advice on board and had tried expressing a couple of weeks ago so I could have my hair cut, at the time I only got 2 1/2 ounces and it took all morning and was definately not enough for DS2, although kept him busy whilst I was gone. For the class I expressed over two days and got 4 ounces and was glad I had it. I had to interupt DS2's feed to leave the house to go to the class and when he arrived at the creche he was hungry. He only took 3 ounces and it was heartbreaking to put the unused ounce down the sink. He was sleeping when we got home (very considerate of him) and surprisingly I had not leaked during the class however after my shower the milk flooded in and I desperately needed to feed him (although of course he was sleeping). The only problem was the nursery nurse who gave him his bottle said he didn't have wind after the bottle but he woke up screaming in pain but not hungry and short time later. Got rid of the wind and managed to get him to feed as I was very uncomfortable by this time.

Anyway enough rambling. Thanks again to everyone for all the advice. I would recommend the exercise to anyone, feel loads better today (a little sore mind you) and am contemplating going to a class on Monday.