Breastfeeding - building the brand - ideas?

[hunkermunker]

The media shorthand for "breastfeeding" seems to be "hairy legs, weirdy sandals, dubious personal hygiene inc. unshaven armpits and a laissez-faire attitude to discipline of children".

What would you like to see in the media to promote bf? More women bf in soaps? Celebs talking more about their experience of bf? Ordinary women who work and bf talking about how they do it (so many times I read women say "there was no point bf, I was going back to work full time when LO was 4/5/6/7mo")?

So much of the bf info out there is kinda clinical - which is fair enough because it's written by the Department of Health. But should there be more from an emotional pov, more written by "women like me" - not the hairy-legged hippies that it's so often written by (NOT slating HLH btw - some of my finest friends could be described thus ).

Just musing, really. Formula manufacturers have HUGE budgets to build their brand awareness and BF relies on volunteers - I know there are marketing people on MN and I wondered if they wouldn't mind giving a bit of input into this?

must admit, I never worried about an esptablishment being bf friendly or not...jhust saw it as my right to feed my Baby...and anyone dare go against that one...ha...no one ever did though, lol....

No no no - building the brand surely means being able to bf in public without hassle and/or choosing not to bf in public if you don't want to so no way are you chicken. I've never bf in public because my lo is so indiscreet - she sounds just like a piglet at a trough and no way could I carry on a conversation with that going on in the background. She's also now quite easily distracted and will turn her head away quickly with nipple in mouth and than 'twang' me (IYKWIM) which probably isn't a pleasant sight for onlookers. Obviously these factors wouldn't make for a relaxing public bfing experience so I don't bother but I salute those who do.

In Glasgow (Scotland probably) you get given quite a good book, both in the booking in pack and when you leave hospital with your baby.

I've been trying to find it on the Internet as I'm sure it's floating around as a pdf out there somewhere.

It's the purple one if anyone else knows it .

The thing is though, I say it's good but I knew all the stuff in it so it didn't have the information I actually needed and it was veeeeeery positive as I recall (I've lost it ) which we all agree is good, but not so useful as a resource when things aren't so rosy.

I think it did have information on where to get help though.

Sorry, meant that these factors wouldn't make it relaxing for ME.

shna...I remember a lil purplish coloured book about bf, I was given that wiht ys, who was born in NI....
and it was very informative and gave you all the right info, abtu feeding and sleeping pattern, etc....possible problems, good pics about latch etc...

Still a good thread, this one

Just need to make a reminder - which I do from time to time! - that volunteer support for breastfeeding cannot be the answer. If every woman who had a problem or a question about breastfeeding saw one of the 4 volunteer orgs, or was asked to do so, the few hundred women who are the volunteers would be overwhelmed by the demand in a few days.

I've done the maths before on mumsnet: 450,000 women begin bf every year in the UK. There are maybe 500-600 breastfeeding counsellors - all of whom have families, and most of whom have paid work as well.

Support for bf can only ever be supplemented by this sort of volunteer help.

OTOH, every bf mother sees midwives and HVs whose job it is to support her bf.

bf needs to be a major, compulsory part of the education of midwives, hv, & doctors, especially gps. Both before qualifying and as part of cpd.

The fact that it isn't is really quite baffling.

I was amazed at the casul way both my gp and hv told me not to ask them about bf - granted they told me who to ask instead but really .

OH, am reading Jason Vale's chocolate buster book at the mo...and of course has nothing to do with bf or FF ...but it really exploits those marvelous advertising tactics...i.e. how we are conditioned into wanting chocolate and how they sow the seed of the whole emotional issues, etc...very interesting, and had me more then once thinking about the whole advertising of FF and why it's got such an impact, etc....like we said before on this thread....advertising doe work brillaintly as in brainwaashing, etc...sigh
but sadly it wuldn't work for something like bf the same way, I think....

tiktok - while I agree that the people in day to day contact with mothers - hvs gps and mws - need more and better training, I also think you need the 'superusers' expert counsellors, if people aren't to crumble whenever the circumstances are not routine.

All the better if they were on nhs payroll and had power to challenge pockets of bad practice/poor advice.

Kif - who are these 'super users'?

Ah back after an early night, hope you did the same MT?
My MW told me if I had any problems with feeding I needed to see the HV but all she ever suggested was formula so not very helpful!
Women have to be really strong if there is not support. I made the resolve to BF & wasnt going to FF so had to overcome any problems that it threw at me as if there wasnt another option but that was just me being stubborn! I was also very lucky that I didnt encoutner too many problems, except spraying milk anywhere, which the HPs suggested I changed the teat size I was using!!!UMMMMM obvuisly not possible!!
I have never felt like giving up but have been made to feel like I am doing something abnormal & keep having to defend my actions which is infuriating. I do have the fulll support of my DH though & we have some excellent BFC in the area who I know I can count on.
Having done a search it appears that Davina McCall has previosuly been involved in supporting BF mums, as has Fern Britton & Fiona Phillips. Kate Garraway has spoken a little about BFing & weight loss recently too.
I just think that its something that gets pushed aside here & surely with all the focus on MWcare in the news it would be a great time for someone to ask about Bfing rates increasing.
A lot of waffle & none of it very constructive!!

Cazee - I'm out today but will get back to you later. I've fed in loads of places in Bedford so maybe we can sort something out.

Cazee - i live in Northampton but would be willing to come over to Bedford one day. i believe there is a bus! i'm feeding ds (12 weeks) atm so would be solidarity for you!

sorry tiktok - meaningless office jargon

When I hear people speak about the need to train health professionals in bf, I always understand it in the sense that success would be measured as 'hours of training delivered' or 'percentage of health professionals attended a course'.

From what I see, the majority of bf mothers will come across one or more 'tricky issues' over the course of a bf relationship. Bad latch/failure to latch/weight/prem/pain/thrush/drugs/return to work/growth spurts/breast reduction/breast enlargement - would even a well trained generalist be able to effectively deal with all of these scenarios?

At the moment, women coming across these tricky patches, where their normal hv/gp/mw is unable to help, would:

• (most likely) wean,

-be savvy and lucky enough to access professional support via one of the organisations or a paid for lactation consultabt or -possibly 'go it alone' with family/friend support/MN/reading/sheer stubborness - a tall order.

I read your comment timed 23.36 last night as saying that voluntary bf organisations are already overstreched (and hence the solution must involve nhs salaried staff).

My point is that it is essential to have A.N. Other who:
a) not only understands 'supply and demand' 'breast is best' and the rest, but can also offer 'technical' specialised support when the (inevitable) sticky patches occur. Say, one per hospital, available to be seen via referral from local hvs/mws/gps.
b)A key person for groups/campaigns/training colleagues/keeping abreast of latest research etc
c) a champion who speaks up if mothers are being given bad advice, bf unfriendly practices occur or other 'things not working'.

In my terminology A.N. Other = Superuser . A snazzy title for a hard job that needs lots of training lots of status and the ear of someone high up the hierachy.

Currently I think the closest people to this are thiose that volunteer through the voluntary orgs. I take your point that volunteer-power is not a limitless resource; that we need to ficus the sol;ution back on the nhs. So, accepting this, back to my point, NHS needs to invest in bf champions as well as the broader dissemination of bf knowledge.

The model could be a rather good one if there was the funding and - more importantly - the political will behind it.

In my personal experience, when I've hads problems, there have been occasional hv 'bf groups'. However, nothing on a par with with the expertise available thriugh the voluntary orgs. If they can't cope with demand if more women were to attempt bf, then that implies that any solution to getting more people to bf has to include professionalising nhs bf support.

I've chatted to my gp both times I had bf probs - their eyes glaze. I didn't go so far as bringing in a bfc to argue my corner, but imagine it would have had about the same effect as introducing your aromatherapist to your obstetrician. It is unsatisfactory that gps don't have their own channels for getting information that they know is reliable.

And, in answer to the OP, having bf as a respected clinical specialism (and why not? Why not make it a route that doctors can choose?) would do a lot to improve the image of bf.

Ahem. Quite Long Answer. Ooops!

Sounds good, Kif, and thanks, but one person per maternity unit is nowhere near enough. Average urban maternity unit has 5000 babies born a year. Say 4000 of them bf. One person cannot possibly deal with the practical issues when bf goes wrong in hospital and community and work at the strategic level you outline as well as taking complaints and over-seeing training.

There are some people who attempt to do this and they are termed 'infant feeding co-ordinators'. They are not everywhere, and where there is just one of them they barely scratch the surface of need.

However, a head of infant feeding with a department underneath him/her, and working across the hospital and community, and who had a proper budget, and a decent salary, could work well.

I suppose what we need as well as more lactation consultants, is that all m/w's and HV's at least, and preferable gp's also, have to truely learn the in and outs of bf...a similar learning module as a bfc would take and for those that never breastfed themselfs, it probably needs to be even more extendet (as a bfc is always a person with personal breastfeeding experience, therefore at least some personal knowledge of bf)...that would, hopefully prepare those close to new mothers to be able to help and support, rather then going for the quickfix of advicing formula....!

Cazee - if you are still up for it I'd love to meet up. I lived in Bedford for 15 years though I've been in Luton for 4 years now.
Must admit my favourite place to BF in Bedford was Cafe Bliss but that is more to do with the wonderful hot chocolate
However somewhere like Weatherspoons or Nandos might be better to start with as they have nice cosy corners and are family friendly. I can also provide a 4yr old and an 17mth old to cause all sorts of distractions so no-one will notice what you are up to!!

CAT me if you are interested and we can go from there.

feetheart, that sounds super. I will CAT you next week to arrange something for after the Easter holidays, theUrbanDryadLovesCremeEggs too if you want to join us! I did bf at a friends house today , with my lovely pink blanket covering me and dd!

Tiktok, celeb endorsement can help to change social attitudes - what about Jimmy Saville and clunk click every trip?

Agree, though, that what is needed more than anything else is informed, available support for women who have started breastfeeding and need help to get over any hurdles. And agree that the NHS should train GPs/MWs/HVs properly. When I was struggling with b/f, my HV was supportive but the b/f counsellor she referred me to was on holiday. I only discovered this when I turned up at the surgery where she worked - a bus ride away from my home. No-one was covering for her. And it wasn't bloody easy to get out of the house, work out bus routes, maneouvre the pram onto the bus and find the surgery given ds was two weeks old and I hadn't had any sleep! If I hadn't been such an awkward bugger, I'd probably have given up there and then.

edam - clunk click was over 30 years ago, and the real difference to seat belt use only came when it was made illegal not to use them....not a good example of celebrity campaigning, sorry

I know it was over 30 years ago, giving my age away there! I do think celebby stuff grabs media and public attention. Celebs may mention b/f in passing in interviews, but it's not the same as promoting b/f as such.

FWIW some people have intimated mother and baby magazines pull their punches on b/f for fear of alienating their advertisers. I used to edit one of those magazines and that was never a consideration. The thing that used to trouble me was how to write about b/f without putting people off (by mentioning that it can be tricky) or being unrealistic (by not mentioning that it can be tricky) or offending readers who bottle fed. And if you look at every b/f thread on here ever you will see that it is terribly easy to unwittingly offend people on this issue.

Have just read the whole thread and bang goes my early night! The other week I was at the LLL BFC get together in Manchester and an American woman (name anyone?) blew me away with her presentations on 'Learning from animals' (about natural birth and bfing) and then about how ffing has somehow become the norm (lots of this on the thread already). Anyway I'll try and post some of her thoughts tomorrow about how research is presented etc when my brain is working a little better.
BTW can someone link to those slogan vests/badges etc. at all as I've been promising them to my BFC class for weeks...

Is it OK to post on here as a hairy legged veggie though? Loved Boobylicious' post too.

Oh yeah, on Orangutang Diary this week the vet presenter was giving a voiceover about how all the little orphans got sick lots as their immune system was so poor due to not being fed by their mothers. No-one would question this I bet but imagine if the film had been in a children's ward - outrage!

There would be outrage, laundry....and rightly so. Because the reasons why women don't breastfeed or don't breastfeed for long are complex and emotional, and often unrelated to 'choice' in the usual sense.

However, the effect on the immunity of the baby orang utangs is the same as the effect on us.

And I am still waiting for an example of a celebrity-led promotion that changed human behaviour and attitudes....clunk click campaign was not all that successful, and anyway it was too long ago to be relevant.

Note: raising profile is not enough. It has to change behaviour.

Jamie Oliver and school dinners?