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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Another question for tiktok

11 replies

Yorkiegirl · 14/07/2004 20:01

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tiktok · 14/07/2004 23:59

I don't think so....there's no reason why it should. Eating masses of might give you diarrhoea, because of the extra fibre and extra fruit sugars and extra water that comes with it. None of that finds it way into the breastmilk....but if you ask, other people will show you they are convinced that extra whatever has an effect on their baby's intestines....though as I say, there is no physiological logic to it

Yorkiegirl · 15/07/2004 00:54

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tiktok · 15/07/2004 02:51

Shame about the HV - she is not being exactly supportive or informed. In fact, you really don't have to eat a certain amount to maintain your milk -

this is a good evidence based site which explains about diet and bf and how relatvely unrelated they are in terms of quality and quantity.

No, the charts are based on a mix of babies - there are several data sets which the charts come from, and while it is likely most of the babies whose info supplies the measurements were having formula, some will have been bf, some will have had early solids, some will have been mixed fed. There is not much difference between the charts in widespread use and the charts for 'breastfed from birth' except the breastfed from birth' show a slight plateauing around about month three.

The problem with the charts is not what they say, but how the information on them is interpreted and valued.

If there is concern about your baby's weight, then the answer is to feed her more often, rather than feeding yourself. It's logical. If you wanted to gain weight, what would you do? You'd have more meals and snacks. Same with the baby - her meals and snacks are in your breasts

But I bet there is no real concern about her weight, so what is the HV on about??

mummytosteven · 15/07/2004 03:02

My HV told me that dropping one centile was pretty normal (DS was 25th at birth, dropped to 9th after a bout with jaundice] and has remained consistently half way between the two for the last few months. Her view was only a sudden steep drop (as in two or more centiles) would be worth taking any notice of.

SofiaAmes · 15/07/2004 03:25

My understanding was that it's actually the percentile that the baby is born at that's important. Generally (but not always), babies return to the centile that they are born at. For example, my ds was born at 8 pounds which was 50th percentile. He was bfed and ate like a pig and went up to 95th percentile very rapidly (never lost his birth weight). He then plateaued around 6 months and slowly went back down to the 50th percentile over the next year or so. He was however, growing well and eating healthily.

tiktok · 15/07/2004 15:35

The percentile the baby is born at is not necessarily perfect either, Sofia...there are so many variables. Many (20 per cent??) of babies are induced and this could affect the weight they 'ought' to have been born at. Babies may or may not poo or wee just before or just after the weight is taken, and some babies are quite mucussy. No, this will not make a huge difference, but even a few ounces either way takes the baby up or down the centiles.

Birthweight is not always 100 per cent accurate either - occasionally I come across babies whose weight at five, six or seven days or so is so massively 'out' compared to their birthweight (with the baby looking just fine), that the only conclusion their healthcare givers can come to is that the weight was recorded wrongly.

i don't think it helps that our system moves between metric and imperial....this leads to errors as well.

Yorkiegirl · 15/07/2004 18:50

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prufrock · 16/07/2004 10:48

tiktok, can I ask a related question. I do beleive you when you say that the food we eat doesn't come out in breastmilk (actually I believe everything you say on the subject of feeding), but how does that tie up with the thought that breastmilk flavour changes due to the mothers diet - wasn't there evidence recently that bf babies were less fussy eaters in later life and this was because they'd been exposed to a less bland diet early on?

Ghosty · 16/07/2004 11:29

I was thinking about this the other day ...
Don't HVs set too much store by centiles? I mean, in order to HAVE a centile at all you have to have heavy babies, light babies and babies in the middle?
My DS was born on the 98th centile and at 5 months (and on solids) was still on the 98th centile. He was huge and I blamed it on the fact that he was bottle fed.
DD was also born on the 98th and at 5 months is now off the scale . She is still breast fed and I started her on solids much later than I started DS ...
Therefore it is obviously genetic ...

DS is now 4 and a half years old and is on the 50th centile for weight and height ... and I know a few 4 year olds who were tiny 6lbers at birth and are now taller and heavier than DS ...

As long as the baby is healthy and happy then really the centiles are not that important are they (feel free to shout at me if I am wrong there Tiktok!!)

Oh and I have experimented a lot with my diet in the last 5 months and have found that it makes no difference to DD ...
She gets what she needs from me ... if I eat too much I put on weight, if I don't eat very much I lose weight ... but she just keeps piling it on ... bless her (not so) little cotton socks

tiktok · 16/07/2004 13:04

Prufrock, yes, you are right. Flavour is said to go into the breastmilk and I think there are experiments which show that babies tend to stay less or more on the breast when the mother has eaten certain foods (the only experiments I am aware of are ones which used vanilla or garlic, and I can't remember which way the babies chose!!).

I don't mean that nothing gets into the breastmilk - some things do, like alcohol, and medication, and nicotine, and there has been work to show that small amounts of dairy protein get into it, too....we are talking tiny amounts, by the way, which leave the gut and then go to the bloodstream and thence to the milk.

I think that flavour molecules are very small and may be able to pass through the adult gut and into the bloodstream. My biology knowledge is now running out

My point was that fruit and veg help us - as grown up people - with constipation and keep our bowels working. The main reason they do this is because of fibre (which stays in the gut) and fruit sugars (processed in the gut) and water (would not make the breastmilk waterier!). There is no logical reason why any of this would make the baby's bowels more 'active'.

However, as I said, some people truly experience differences in their baby's behaviour or functions, and they put it down to their own diet. They might be right. It's just that there is (so far - and we don't know everything yet!) no logical reason why this should be, in many (not all) cases!

It does irritate me when I hear that HVs or others tell a mother worried about her baby not gaining weight or raising some other issue that her diet needs changing - and this is suggested before the far more likely strategies (like feeding more often)

tiktok · 16/07/2004 13:08

Centile charts are not used well, in my opinion. Ghosty, you are right, if the baby is healthy and happy, then their significance is hugely reduced. I think they can be useful when looking at the trend of a baby's weight, and some HPs use 'thrive lines' as an overlay to the chart, which give a bit more information. Some babies are 'happy starvers' whose weight falls down the charts without complaint, so there is quite a lot of skill needed in interpreting what the charts say in the context of the individual baby. One baby can look just fine, and be on the same centile (because he is shorter in length) as a baby who looks skinny. I think we know enough to know that babies who are skinny could do with more calories.

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