Not enough milk production - dad writing on mum's behalf

[rrt]

My wife is having trouble in producing enough milk for our 3 week old DS. From the beginning, he was given formula by the midwife in the hospital as my wife was having trouble feeding him (latch was bad). Things got worse when her nipples were in real pain, and so to ensure the baby was fed, was given more formula. Wife was in so much pain with feeding from her nipples, but didn't give up and soldiered on.

In the last 10 days, breast feeding has improved and it appeared that there was less need for the formula. However, yesterday he cried for ages not happy with her milk and wanting formula - having thought that he was almost off the formula, he then drank about 90ml in one go (loads compared to the 30-60 he had previously been drinking).
What to do to increase her supply?
Wife is trying to stay calm and unstressed (difficult she reminds me), has tried to stay in bed as much as possible, and eats well as well as getting a good amount of liquid.
What is a sensible way to move from her milk+formula all the way to just her milk. She is happy to put the work in, just that she is not apparently producing enough to make him happy!
ps. yes, sorry for this not being dadsnet, but wife really would like some help!

I'd still like to know what evidence you have that your advice on diet and resting works, Nursey Jo. Sometimes this sort of problem sorts itself out without any one really knowing what did the trick. Tiktok I'm sure that what Nurseyjo was suggesting won't do any harm even though rrt's dw was doing it already and people have made much worse suggestions (eg give baby formula early on).

RRT - brownie points for being a good husband and father by supporting dw's efforts. Even more brownie points to dw for concentrating on the baby and not dragging herself to the computer.

My own suggestion for sore nipples is cabbage leaves (raw!) in the bra, and a comfy sleep-bra. The real problem is probably attachment, no matter how many hvs have pronounced it perfect. You just have to work really hard at it every time. Perhaps try different positions. Also, perseverence will get you through (it did me)in the end if you have faith. Faith in your own body's ability to nourish your baby. (If not sabotaged by supplementing with formula).

Aren't savoy cabbage leaves put in the bra supposed to be good for sore nipples? I never tried this but I know other people have found it very helpful. I know it doesn't sound v. glam, but apparently it really helps...

cross post!

NurseyJo do you have any evidence other than anecdotal?...Medical or evidenced-based research would be preferable...

Sorry if I sounded sanctimonious or as if I own the board (eh???! ) - the post I sent was the toned down version, so probably better to be 'sanctimonious' than how I cam across in the original ;)

Thing is, tiktok is a breastfeeding professional, trained as a BFC. She really does know what she's doing. She provides incredible amounts of support to women on this board, over and over.

And (understandably) she gets annoyed when NurseyJo repeatedly comes on, spouts nonsense, claiming to be a breastfeeding professional, when in fact she's not. This isn't their first run-in, and it certainly won't be their last.

I'm bf dd2, 4 weeks old. I had a cracked nipple and got wonderful advice from the Kellymom site already linked to further down. I changed bf position, used Lansinoh and a breast shell over the affected nipple for 40mins after a feed (this keeps the skin moist and speeds up healing) The crack sorted itself out after a couple of days.

I think the cabbage leaves are to relieve engorgement(?) rather than sore nipples as such?

rrt, I think the best thing you can do is to let your dw feed whenever baby squeaks - so get her lots of cups of tea, stay in bed all day with the baby etc!!! Also, feed feed feed through the night when the prolactin hormone is greatest.

The feeling of full/empty is quite misleading, don't assume because she doesn't 'feel full' that there isn't any milk there.

I had supply problems with ds1 and ds2 - with ds1 I never got off the formula supplements, and it did work well, I b/fed him up to 13 months, but I did feel depressed about it. In between the boys, I had dd who had no problems, which gave me the confidence with ds2 to persevere - he had a small supplement for about a week.

As people have said, just feed feed feed to increase supply - start by dropping one bottle at a time. Don't be afraid to switch sides as well - I found that helped.

What really turned things around with ds2 was topping up with EBM - this is a bit contraversial on here, as it is a PITA - I would express on one side prior to a feed (and generally get about 2oz), express a tiny bit of the other side (0.5-1oz) - supposedly to increase the 'hindmilk' (again a contentious point - if I understand tiktok correctly it is all the same milk, but as the breast is emptier, the milk is creamier), then feed off the side which had only had a little expressed off, switch to the other side, switch again, switch again then top up with the EBM. This would take half an hour or so, I would then put him down to sleep, wash the breast pump (I had a Medela electric one which I found far better than the hand one), sterilise it all, by which time it was nearly time to feed again.

I was feeding regimentally every 2 hours (beginning of feed to beginning of feed). If you tried something like this, what would have really helped me would have been my dh doing the 'in between' bits, so I could sleep, because as ds2 was my third, I was shattered!

I'm not pretending to be an expert on this, but it did work with ds2, along with lots of advice from tiktok, hunker etc. And once I established a routine that was easier in a way.

I said it earlier, but I do think the most important thing at this stage is not to let him go too long between feeds, especially at night. I got my dh to bring me a cup of tea for night feeds which really made a difference psychologically!!!! Hope things sort out.

bit scared about posting here...people hold very strong views about bf! IME - only one i can truly talk about, i have bf 2 boys for 2+years each and just wanted to add that keeping at it and getting through the tough part is really really worth it, for me it became second nature in the end. offering the breast all the time, snuggled in bed is in my experience best way to get everything established. am a bit shocked about offering formula in hospital, i hoped that this practice was disappearing. good luck to all three of you

Hello rrt - the La Leche League are active in the North London area (Barnet), would you like a phone number ? They used to have a group meeting at someone's house once a week.

Barent Hospital has weekly drop in sessions too with a very experienced mw. North London also has I think two BABY CAFES nearby. They run weekly sessions with a bf mw or councillor usually at hand. Again would you like their contact details ?

Face to face is really VERY important as it will give your wife much needed moral support as well as physical support to bf. I can't recommend a meeting enough, I wish I had known about these things when DS was a baby instead of spending hours on the net !!!

I didn't know about MN at the time either until DS was 5 months old and I was a bf "expert" by then , I am glad you do !

Sorry, haven't read whole thread, but your wife needs to put some Lansinoh on her nipples after every feed (you can buy a tube of this at boots, mothercare, etc., it will help keep nipples moist and less painful). I see that you have had latch sorted, but if you meet someone they will check it again.

The BEST way to increase supply is to feed frequently, for a baby that age 8 - 12 feeds a day, including in the middle of the night. Lots of skin to skin contact even when not feeding, slings are good. Formula feeds can be dropped gradually.

Please let me know if you need contact info. indicated above.

RRT how are things today?

Tortoiseshell - wouldn't you relieve engorgement by expressing a bit off before you start feeding? Cabbage leaves (and I used ordinary white cabbage) are cooling; they take the heat off and don't stick to you.

I also had some moist bits of gauze from the hv/mw but can't remember what they're called.

Elasticwoman - I've no idea, I never used them, I just always understood there was an enzyme in savoy cabbage that relieved engorgement pain. But I'm ready to be corrected

rrt -

for sore nipples try silverette or silverlon from breastfeedingheaven.co.uk i personally used the silverette and was completely healed within 24hours. They were a godsend to me. Silver healing seems to be catching on in the UK now, it has been used in breastfeeding for decades in Italy and is now being used in the UK to combat MRSA - just shows how powerful it can be.

check these links out;

silver and mrsa

silver mrsa news

The role of silver in wound healing

Ladies,

Sorry for the radio silence. I have shown these comments to my wife and she is working out what's the best way for her to go forwards. Sounds like the first immediate step is to go to a breast feeding clinic, seems like there is one in Kentish Town tomorrow so that might work.

More soon, and thanks again. Really, this sort of stuff is hugely appreciated.

rrt

how's it all going?
hope it is working out for you all

might be bit late in the day, as it were, but when ds was 7 weeks and i was crying with frustration and exhaustion i went to my local baby cafe and they were absolutely fab.

congratulations on your (not so new now!) arrival and i hope everything works out ok.