Please send milky vibes - Kif's last stand

[Kif]

I'm giving it one more week before I just let things take their natural course. Suspect that'll be ds becoming totally formula fed. Which is OK - since he's 4 months, but a little sad.

We had 4 months trouble free feeding. Then 3 weeks mad feeding frenzy, escalating crying, crashing off the charts for weight gain. So from 10 days ago (exc. bf) we're now up to 16oz+ formula a day (and rising?). Still bf every 2 hrs or more, and co-sleeping at night. Similar to what happened to dc1.

My 'last stand' strategy is: I'm treating us both for thrush (query my self diagnosis as no white plaques in his mouth). Also ordered 'more milk plus' supplement - will take from tomorrow. Carry on feedathon (but ff on demand also).

Done the rl rounds with bfc, gp etc. No suggestions. Occassionally express, but max yield 1.5 oz.

Any bfc types have experience of supplements? What can I expect? Anything else you can advise?

All vibes appreciated.

Must resume looking after the rest of my family soon - and feel a little obsessive to be chasing this given he's no longer teeny tiny newborn - but very sad if this is the end of bf for me and my little chap.

Kif, I am so glad things are going well. and

(However, I totally and utterly disagree with volunteers measuring babies' heads and making clinical judgements about them - what she said is not even true. No one measures babies' heads in the UK any more unless there is a strong clinical reason to do it....why? Because it is easy to be inaccurate, and it tells you nothing! And I am taken aback by her assessing milk fat content on sight of a drop....Sorry - not raining on the parade because I really do think you are doing absolutely great!)

Gotta ask - was she a qualified LL leader (that's what they call counsellors)?

Yes, she was.

The milk demo was quite dramatic and convincing, tbh. Would it sometimes give you misleading results?

Re: the head - 'clinical judgement' is a bit strong - it was more 'for fun', and not part of her usual patter. She had a previous incarnation as a hv, so I think she had as good a chance as anyone of getting it right. He'd never had it done before - and I was talking about how I'd asked for a length for another measure of growth.

Kif, I feel a bit awkward criticising this woman...I could post more about her methods, but I'll leave it there. She's not from my own organisation, but if she was, I would try to take it further. What she did was outside the boundaries of a volunteer - quite apart from the actual things she did, which I would also take issue with!

However, she gave you confidence, supported you in your determination to continue bf, and she's helped you find a good position

Hope things continue to go well for you!

The milk drop thing is really working for me as a 'protocol' and a confidence boost at the moment. Possibly to do with the milk boosting herbs making it more dramatic.

I'm targeting more effective less frequent feeds - 'feeding all the time' clearly wasn't working for us. Seing tasty looking milk with my own eyes makes me when my Mr. Skinny says 'I've finished' after 15 mins, and double at interpreting crying shortly after a feed as a need for a supplement of formula.

I've set up a throne of cushions in my front room - and we've been at it for an hour now. He 'finished' after about 15 mins (all goofy grins and chuckles), and looked at me as though I was mad when I started relatching him rugby ball style and doing compressions. After a little negotiating though, he did decide to knuckle down - so he must have found a bit of appetite and a bit of milk.

off for weighing this afternoon.

Kif how did it go?

I am really intrigued to hear about the effect of the herbs on your supply - can you tell us more about it?

He put on 300g in a week - which keeps him steady on his 0.4th (!) centile.

They said 'good' - but not to be overenthusiastic with cutting the supplements - so as to maintain acceptable weight gain.

Yesterday he had same amount of formula as day before - 8oz. I could have probably goty away with a bit less - he went to sleep for 5 hours at night, and I woke up with porn-star boobs by the time he did get hungry again.

Still lovin' the supplement - before we started formula was escalating, now we've halved it in a couple of days. As to side effects, I had a sore tummy for the first day, but I had 'overdosed'. On the normal dose no such probs. I feel super-naturally tired - which may be herbs, or may just be the effort of the whole endeavour.

Also working on getting more effective feeds. I've a throne of cushions on my sofa. Only frustrating thing is that at the moment, feding is such a production, that I don't dare go out - and barely have a free hand for MN . Hopefully we'll get the knack and it'll settle. I've a little secret hope that if I can get ds to take more hindmilk, then we might see one of those prodigious weight gains that bf babies sometimes have.

Anyway, thanks for asking! Dh is home w'end - and it's my daughters b'day - so she'll have a nice fuss made of her to make up for having been so patient recently.

Kif - that weight gain is fine. Babies rarely put on more than 300g in a week - it's 10 and a half ounces!! This is as close to the max as you would ever expect in an older baby.

You are cutting down the formula at the right rate, too.

You are doing brilliantly

Brilliant Kif.
Keep posting please,I am enjoying the story.

Kif your story is really inspirational - I am full of admiration for you

Coming soon - Kif - my baby won't nap - showing on the sleep topic nationwide.

Well, he's not had formula yet today - which puts him on course for having dropped another supplement today.

However, my 'back to school' day of staying at home and practising making feeds more effective hasn't really worked as planned. The little bugger won't sleep! That is, he'll fall asleep on the boob, only to be woken by the first disturbance (i.e. the first tigger-bouncing big sister). I've not noticed how bad he's got, cos we're normally out the house most of the day. So we've kinda been snackin' on and off; nappin' on and off.

At the moment he's looking all angelic in his cutest striped blue playsuit with a goofy little smile - but I'm braced for a bad night. Tomorrow I'll have to figure a new strategy for practicing making feeds more effective. No point in succeding with withdrawing the supplements, if we don't resolve the original problem of him apparently not taking in enough calories from breastfeeding.

p.s. appreciate the messages of support very much.

Not feeling 'inspirational'! More like 'unable to let go', dangerously stubborn, irrational woman

To update - we seem sorted - at least on the 'dropping supplementary formula' front. No bottles for last 36 hours. Wow, didn't expect to win this one!

I've stopped the fenugreek supplement now.

Obviously we're not out of the woods. At the size he is, we need to maintain good weight gain. I'm 'working' the different positions etc. to try to make feeds more effective - every feed is a 1 hour circus at the moment. However, he's been spacing feeds today 3/3.5 hrs - that must be a good sign, right?

Fingers crossed for next Thursday's weigh in!

Many thanks for support, guys.

Wow I've just read your entire story! That is so great I am speechless! My dd2 was on the 0.4th centile at christmas when she was 6 months (she weighed 12lbs 11) - HV most disgusted! It all fell apart and she is now ff I didn't have your energy to carry on - 3 other children and felt like a total failure. You have done so well. Carry on the good work
My dd2 is now perfectly happy on her f milk ..... so I'm happy too.
Haven't had her weighed since .... the whole thing peed me right off - she looks fine and she looked fine then - just a little diddy.

Congratulations!

Dunno if this is true (I like to think its helping me) apparently marshmallow is a natural breast milk stimulant. (I think its actually mallow) but I am scoffing marshmallows & I am producing a ridiculous amount of milk.

I'll try the marshmallows... but do you think chocolate would work too

schilke for you that things didn't work out as you wanted. But 4 kids - wow! And 6 months is darn good - and hard work. Not failure at all!

To update on last week - if anyone's still interested!

I got rid of top-ups entirely for 48hrs - but have since settled on a steady pattern of 4oz a day- at irregular times as he seems to need it. Possibly cut the herbal milk-boosting supplement too quick - started up drinking bf tea for a 'maintenance dose' which I seem to need at the mo'.

Had quite a long week all round - a couple of unrelated things - but also due to Ds's naps being totally up the spout. That is a bit stressful - not much recuperation. It also rather sabotages the idea of making feeds more effective - he gets tired and ratty, at which point it's a toss up between falling asleep as soon as he latches and/or getting frustrated. It's also started denting my confidence over whether he's really 'getting enough'.

tbc... wails of little children call me!

Sorry to hear your DS is getting crotechety - how old is he now? Could it be another growth spurt? I only mention it cos DS is always v v grumpy (as well as feeding often) when he has a spurt.

Sorry to hear your DS is getting crotechety - how old is he now? Could it be another growth spurt? I only mention it cos DS is always v v grumpy (as well as feeding often) when he has a spurt.

Kif,babies can be ratty anyway.
I don't think it is always for an (observable) reason.
Are you planning to continue with the formula feed?
You really could drop it if you trusted in your body.

I'm mis-representing my lovely little chappy. He's not ratty all the time - he's actually very smile-y and has just started rolling. It's just that he barely settles for daytime naps - and I've tried swing/cot/buggy ... car OK if you don't stop for traffic lights... sling of you don;t sit .. on the boob in my arms so long as you don;t put him down or make any noise. Super touchy. No daytime sleep leaves everything -Ds/Mummy/big sis/state of the household - not at their best - esp when we're trying to learn new improved bf technique to try to resolve the underlying feeding problem we seem to have.

In all honesty - and I think I' getting over-wound up about this because I'm tired - I'm psychologically closer to increasing the ff by 4oz than dropping the bottle. I've no more tolerance for any more significant weight gain problems - and I'm pretty vulnerable to thinking he's not getting enough if he's not settling/misses a poo/grumpy etc.

I'm bumping up the herbs again - as I said - which may help keep me ticking over. My body's been pretty good to me in growing and delivering lovely healthy babies - but milkiness is definitely not my strong point.

Anyhoo - Kif update continued as promised... My, my, I'm talkative today.

So, I'm losing heart on the bf - and weigh day rolls round. Off we pootle - Ds in his new green ASDA T-shirt with the slogan 'small.. but perfectly formed' I bought it as his lucky weigh-day shirt.

He's gained 80g - which keeps him on his centile ( for 300g last wk 80g this week, but same centile - but I guess it's how it works ). Sooo, we're ok. Could be better, could be worse. I've had a poor week, so I'm relieved the weight is still ok.

I can hear you ladies chew your fists in frustration as I say that she suggested that - while sticking to your centile generally means good news, in my case, given formulas in the picture and we're so small, perhaps an extra 4/8oz wouldn't go amis (but it's my life, and I shouold obv. make decision myself).

Quite coincidentally, later in the day i got chatting to another mum. She had a tiny baby too - but reckoned that she shot up in weight when solids were introduced. She was full of encouragement to keep pegging with it until solids, which she thought would improve things.

So, that's us. Sorry to be so long-winded!

Not having naps is the worst thing ever isn't it? My DD is just about the same age as your ds, and the days when she doesn't nap are the ones when I am almost in tears by the end of them.

I'm no expert (what with only the one small baby and all that) but she went through a pretty similar horrible spurt a couple of weeks ago, but did come out the other side. And the good news is that, for the first time in her short life, she is going to be during the day. In her cot. So there is hope, really there is.

Are you still expressing, incidentally? Because one of the ways I weaned dd off formula top ups was to express and give that as a top up where I could; it made me feel a bit better about it all, and probably helped to bump up my supply a bit too.

And it probably is worth keeping up with the tea - I stayed on the fenugreek for ages, probably way longer than I needed to, just because I was so scared of what might happen if I stopped.