Really stupid question!?!

[Tissy]

How do I tell if a breast is empty? It occurred to me that my dd may not be getting enough hind milk, if I swap sides too soon. Until now I have let her stay on one side until she pulls herself off, and then offered the other, which she usually refuses. But at bedtime she often falls asleep rather than pulls herself off. I'm trying to get her to fill up in order to last longer between feeds, and, when she falls asleep, I've been detaching her and swapping sides. Should I just rouse her a little and put her back on the same side? If I do that how do I know if she is sucking for the sake of it (on empty!) or whether she is actually getting some useful milk?

You can never totally empty a breast but you are right to let her take herself off.
I would wake her as you have been doing and if you don't see her sucking for eating (ear and jaw moving) I would assume she is comfort sucking not eating.
Can you feed her before she is too tired in the evening - maybe 30 minutes earlier ?
How old is she anyway ????

Just five months-

I'm sure I've read somewhere- it may even have been Gina Ford-to feed on one side until it is completely empty, then swap!

GF does say that and others do too but it's not accurate - it can however be very close to empty.
If she is 5 mo, does she sleep through the night and is she on solids ?

what I found when bfing is that as soon as they come off, milk keeps coming, so you think there's more in there. However, leave it a few seconds and you only get a tiny bit out when you squeeze it, unlike squeezing at the beginning of a feed.

Pupuce- she's starting to sleep longer at night and we have had the very occasional sleep from 11pm to 5 am, but mostly wakes once or twice if put down at 7pm. She's getting solids (really only fruit/veg puree) at midday only at present. As I'm expressing milk for her at work, I haven't hurried to introduce a second "meal" as I want to keep the nipple stimulation going!!

We're Elizabeth Pantley converts on the sleep front, and she recommends getting as much milk as possible in during the day, so the baby doesn't wake for a top-up. Unfortunately with dd at nursery and not too keen on bottles, we have to aim for a great big feed at bed-time, hence the original query!

Well it's the same principle as Gina Ford - lots of food daytime.
Do you wake your daughter at 11PM to feed her ?

No! She wakes herself- I've usually been asleep for at least an hour by then! Last night she didn't wake till one, but then had coughing fits at 2.30 and 5am, which required nipple therapy to get her back to sleep! I'm hoping when this cold settles she'll be back to once a night again!

Why don't you wake her at 11PM then??? Especially as she will wake anyway ?
You seem familiar with GF - is that something you have read or tried ?

Tried GF for a while, I must admit rather half-heartedly, as I felt it was rather too regimented for our purposes. Also, I knew I would be going back to work, and I couldn't really expect a nursery to stick to the rules when they have another half-dozen babies and toddlers to look after. Some aspects of the plan worked well, such as the feeding schedules, but I couldn't get dd to nap on demand- at the time she would go absolutely apesh*t if put down at all! I turned into a reluctant attachment parenter, walking around all day with her in a sling. Thankfully, she's a lot more happy go lucky now! As for waking her at 11 to feed -tried that ! She would still continue to wake once or twice after that, so it doesn't put off the inevitable!

I'm optimistic about the EP plan working, and apart from the recent cold, have noticed an improvement. I have reduced the duration of the night wakenings, if not the number (so far!), and last night dd actually fell asleep in her cot!! OK so that may not sound like much of an achievement to some of you, but this baby has required breastfeeding to sleep for the last five months. I can now remove her from the nipple while still drowsy, put her in the cot and watch her fall asleep on her own (this is where I would put one of those yellow smilies if I knew how!).

Yellow smilies and others are available here

Good on you for letting her fall asleep on her own - it is important and if it was difficult it's great that you have achieved it... so well done.

Just FYI : I have raised both my kids on GF - found it very easy myself but nursery never followed the routine and both kids still fall right back on the routine when at home and it never disrupted their sleep if they slept (less usually) at nursery or even ate badly.

IMO (in my opinion) - I don't think your daughter is waking of pure hunger at her age - it is my opinion only. I am also one who does NOT advocate weaning early but I do suspect that if she had tea (at 4 or 5) she might sleep better.

Also DD is 10 mo and I work (I know that's not obvious as I am on mumsnet a lot ), I still bf her every morning and evening and have JUST stopped expressing once a day for her afternoon milk - she now gets a bottle but it's only twice a week. What I am trying to say is that I still have plenty of milk even if my breasts don't feel full. Once bf is very well established (5 months certainly constitutes that) and you keep feeding her twice a day... you should be able to maintain enough milk... I am sure there are some people who will say they couldn't but generally it's not a problem.

thanks!