Is there a link between the declining rate of breastfeeding and the normalisation of porn?

[Lio]

I've been mulling this over for a while but need to hear what others have to say as I'm not getting very far on my own.

The thread where crystalpony said that the thought of breastfeeding her children repulsed her (here ) was an eye-opener for me. Mears says on this thread that there are a lot of women who find the thought of breastfeeding repulsive (for the record, crystalpony said she didn't find it repulsive that other people breastfeed their babies, just that the idea of her breastfeeding her own was repulsive - I don't want to re-ignite anything).

Then I was again taken aback by the thread where a lot of MN-ers said they would post topless for a lads' mag for £50k (here )

Plenty of things on Mumsnet, such as this brilliant post from Monkeytrousers (sat 15 April, 18:05:36) had led me to assume (dangerous!) that the prevailing attitude towards lads' mags was that they were not a good thing, so I was surprised to read so many people saying they would consider being photographed for one.

So then I was wondering if there is any link between these two shifting attitudes towards breasts. It would be helpful to know whether women in earlier generations have felt that breastfeeding is repulsive, either in general or for them in particular. Anyone know a midwife/bf counsellor old enough to know about this?

I have tried googling this to see what (if anything) has been written about it, but once you type in 'porn' you get a bit swamped.

it is moondog, absolutely

if there was one brand of formula, then i guess it would be easier ! but there isn;t and i suppose part of it is that we like making choices and like being savvy consumers, and in the arena of infant feeding, where there is a lot of guilt to be played on,

why not encourage mums to pay more for a better shaped bottle ? or a designer bottle ? or a toddler milk that is jam packed with the nutrients your child needs

and i am saying this as a formula feeder

Sorry Lio, may have floated off the point, it's a big big subject.

Wonder if men generally do find b/feeding repulsive? I think a lot would be lead by the women in their family. Or am I being ridiculously naive. Again.

That's reminded me, must give the Aptamil people a nudge - I wrote to them weeks and weeks ago about some marketing I thought was against the rules and they haven't replied.

(They wouldn't see much anyway moon, b/feeding hasn't even got me convincingly into a C cup ho ho.)

I haven't read all of the thread, but surely breastfeeding has increased massively since my own generation were babies in the 1960s? My mother didn't know of anyone who breastfed. Poorer mums fed their babies Cow & Gate, better-off ones SMA!

I link stuff like that direct to Baby Milk Action and tell them I've done it.

Lio... i emailed organix re weaning info and took them about 3 months to get back to me!

Yes walnutshell (my fellow isketcher ), I think that it's such a big subject that my enfeebled brain can't cope, which is why I'm picking everyone else's. Thanks all for your comments.

Dinosaur I had no idea . So how long has this (not bf-ing) been going on?

One thing that really bugs me, on the formula-marketing front. If you type 'breastfeeding' into google, the main sponsored link is generally an aptimil-milupa page.

Thing is, google won't accept adverts from booze, cigarettes, and a bunch of other things they don't like, but they'll accept formula? Wtf?

Well, probably since cows were domesticated, giving at lesat some women an alternative to feed their babies with. But I imagine the marketing of formula milk in the 50s and 60s was probably a huge influence.

Lio - to get to your original point, there is a feeling around pregnancy and birth generally, that it is something to be got out of the way, that your body has been taken over and you want it back and breastfeeding prolongs that taken over feeling........i think that coupled with the sexualisation of breasts generally, that they belong , not even to the woman, but to her husband or partner, makes this undercurrent stronger, so why would you breastfeed when your breasts are there to be admire/ treated as sexual objects only and certainly not to be taken out in polite company

From another perspective though Lulu,that 'taken over' feeling can be qute nice. In retrospect,it was rather special to exist in that sort of post partum limbo.

Don't get me wrong though,sometimes b/feeding was tedious.

Talking of bf, time to go and see to my dd. I am so ignorant about the whole formula thing, I need to do some homework to better understand what happened. Somebody got very rich, that much is clear.

Likewise with FHM etc, somebody got rich there too.

Lio, read The Politics of Breastfeeding by Gabrielle Palmer.It contains everything you need to know.

Agree moondog. I love the feeling that I am still providing my DS with nourishment directly from me.

My parents are both 70. My mum was fed on cows' milk and my dad was breastfed. His health is better than hers now, although he smoked and drank and she never did. Neither of them is overweight. He has always suffered with hayfever and she never has had any allergies. Not that the experiences of two individuals proves a thing, of course.

moondog..i liked the taken over feeling too,,,! BUT not all women do, and there is a denormalisation of pregnancy and birth, that can make its way into the arena of bf

when DD was 3 weeks old, i went to get my hair cut, and the 20 something girl doing my hair, said, 'oh, i'd beg for a caesarean, it;s horrible doing it the other way', or some such thing..

pregnancy and birth is still a little bit taboo....

im 25 from a low socio economic back ground and fairly intelligent and was pretty promiscious b4 i met dh waited til i was married and had a house before we had a baby i have esxclusively bf despite going back to work at 4 and a half months i am now doing all her food blw style more because we have coeliacs in the failmy but my point is

my peers who have children maybe 2-3 years older than my daughter think im a hippy cause i bf my mil 58 is constantly asking me when im stopping bf cause ive done it for long enough my mother just goes along with it 48 thinks lw is common sense and my sil think im pious 38 and 35 with children 10 9 and 6

we all have the same back grounds but im the only one who has breastfed and maybe its cause of mn and my mw who where very firm but informative

Exactly, booby, it is perfectly possible to come from a family and socio-economic background where nobody breastfeeds and still do it successfully yourself, if you have the information and a bit of determination, support and luck.

another thing your not telling me the rush you get from bf exists with ff

i just love its me not anything artificial thats making her the beautiful chunky thing she is

Booby,did MN make you decide (at least partly) to breastfeed then?

mw on maternity ward said she has such a big mouth you'll have no problems there 27 +1 and counting not as yet

oh yes very much so had some very gentle but informative advice and ideas to shut people up with