Calling all bf mums - advice needed for 1st time mum 2 B!

[Jenniebibs]

I am due to have my 1st baby in 7 weeks and I'm really confused about bf...

I really, really want to bf (my dh has Crohn's disease in his family and I want to help my LO set up the healthiest guts possible) and I've been reading tons of different bf books - probably too many as I'm now totally confused!!

Clare Byam-Cook (What to Expect When You're Breastfeeding and What If You Can't) says it should be possible to tank your baby right up by waking them if they drop off and giving them both breasts, and then all your baby will want to do is sleep for 3 hours.

Is this at all realistic and / or possible?

On the other hand the Baby Whisperer says that after feeding your baby should want to play for a bit and THEN go to sleep until the next feed.

So I guess what I want to know is:

• Do bf babies really fit into these nice neat routines??

• What are your bf babies like and is it really possible to tank them up and then go 3 hours between feeds?

• Do they want to drop off to sleep after a feed or are they lively and ready for some activity?

Sorry for all the questions but all the conflicting advice out there has left me totally bewildered ... it would be great to hear your experiences as it would help me understand what to expect - thanks!

Jennie, you need to wait and see basically. I had every intention of feeding my ds on the breast but sadly it didnt work out for me.

I had to knock it on the head when I was feeding him by expressing only as I couldnt bare the pain when he tried to latch on.

I tried the breast feeding clinics but still it wasnt happening.

I was so tired with feeding, pumping, feeding (it was taking me ages to express)that I had to get my life back else I wouldnt of enjoyed my babe.

5 weeks i persevered and put him on the bottle. We were both much happier

Definately give it a shot but if it isnt for you dont get worked up about it.

It will all depend on your baby, Jennie.
I was very, very lucky with dd. We fell into a feeding routine, that worked for us.

I found that at first dd would sleep after a feed, but as she got older it was not always the case.

I found that in the early days dd would tank up, then sleep for 3/4 hours.

The best advice I can give is not to worry if your baby doesn't follow what the books say, they can't read yet after all !

Hello and congratulations on the impending arrival.

I bf both my children for 14mths (stopped 3 weeks ago with DS). So here are my answers:

1. Did they fit into a routine? - Not a 'book routine' but they did create their own, which usually changed as soon as you'd got used to it!
2. DD when tiny used to take from one breast, do an enormous poo, I'd change her then offer her the other breast, sometimes she'd take it, sometimes not.

DS was a very efficient feeder, 10-15mins and that was it, he wouldn't take any more. Always on 75th centile though so obviously getting enough.

1. Both (sorry!) - depended on time of day, mood, general level of activity around, whether there was an R in the month, etc

You will need to take your lead from your baby really. There will be times when they go for what seems like ages between feeds and times when you are glued to the sofa for what seems like days. It does sort itself out after a while though. Just be aware of when growth spurts are (10 days and 6 weeks at least), this will be when any routine will go out of the window and you will be feeding constantly for a few days.

Also be aware that although its the 'natural' way to feed your baby it doesn't usually come naturally. It's something both of you have to learn how to do and that takes a while.

Good luck.

Babies definitley are not predicatble creatures. My first baby was easily tanked up - the rest weren't.

I know you have read a lot but have you seen this little guide - the essential breastfeeding book .

It is written by a friend of mine and it just explains in simple detail what it is like to breastfeed. Worthwhile for every new mum.

Got to go out in a minute, but just wanted to say...

Good luck with the bf and well done for trying to find out as much info as possible before baby arrives.

Try not to get too hung up on having a feeding regime/schedule, especially in the first few weeks. Be prepared to spend lots of time feeding - and I mean lots. I think lots of women are taken aback by the sheer amount of time spent feeding in the early days and weeks that they (wrongly) assume they have a problem with supply.

After the first month or so, I think you can start to work towards the kind of routine outlined in Tracy Hogg's book. But a word of warning - Tracy Hogg's advice with regard to bf is very suspect in places, so beware.

My dh also has crohn's disease, so I can well undersatnd your concerns about the possibility of your child inheriting this awful illness. In fact, dh was very ill (in hospital) when dd1 was born and I had an awful lot of problems getting bf established. But looking at the state of him made me absolutely determined to persevere and eventually things did work out. I was very keen to maintain a "sterile gut" for dd1 and so that meant no formula at all until she was weaned.

I know there are lots of threads around along the lines of "what did you wish you knew before you started breastfeeding", so it might be worth trying to read through some of those. Unfortunately, I think our culture is so dominated by formula feeding that many of our ideas about "normal" baby behaviour are based on the behaviuor of a formula-fed baby, rather than one fed as nauture intended. HTH.

My experience with ds was that it took perseverance and courage (not to mention blodymindedness) to get the latch right. I never let ds continue to feed if I felt the latch was not 100% - I took hime off straight away (despite vociferous complaints) and then reattached. Soon ( a couple of weeks) he would take himself off if it wasn't right first time, and try again. BUT having a breast feeding counsellor/ or interested mid-wife to hand may be very helpful so that you know what a correct latch is like.
I would tickle his feet to keep him awake whilst feeding, but never managed to get him to go for three hours in the early days. He would sleep for 1 1/2 or 2 1/4 hours (or 3/4 hr if unlucky )and then be alert when he woke up, but feeding nearly always ended in sleep.
The first two weeks, dh did everything round the house whilst I just fed ds (and read books to stop me going insane, my Mum bought me a book holder thing), ate, drank, slept when he slept, drank some more......
Then dh went back to work....... not much housework got done for a while!
It was all definitely worth it though
Oh, and DON'T underestimate how much labour will take out of you..... having no nappies (ds was just over 3 weeks early and we weren't prepared), I went down to the little shop in the hospital foyer (leaving ds in the tender care of the midwives) to buy some, and without thinking walked down three floors - and then up three floors. I nearly passed out on the way back up!

The other thing to be prepared for mentally is that it can take up to 8 wees to get breast feeding "sorted". If you go into it with that attitude, when you come across problems, then you are more ready to persevere through them.

It is worth it. I fed ds fro1 3months - despite him being very difficult in the first few weeks, not latching on properly, pretending to suck, being a very sleepy baby, not gaining weight accrsong to the charts.... Fortunately I had lots of excellent support from the maternity hopsital's breast feeding counsellors, plus from my dh.

The breast feeding counsellors even said that ds would have been a good case study of a "Non Failure to Thrive" baby who didn't folow the grwoth charts. In other words - look at the baby and trust that if you see a nice healthy baby, forget about the grwoth charts!

Personally, I owuld recommend forgetting about the books for the first weeks and see how you and your baby find it works. Routine might not be the best way for you. Get feeding established first and then wee what routine works for you.

jenniebibs, Iam feeding my 4th baby, and the only answer I can give you is that each baby is an individual with their own little personality and needs, I bf the first 2 for over a year each, but ds2 decided he had had enough at 11 months. My first 3 babies used to fall asleep whilst feeding and yes 3-4 hours was possible between feeds, but dd2 tends to like to feed and have a chat before sleeping. I think if you get anxious about "tanking" baby up, doing what the books say s/he probably wouldn't feed so well.(Not totally against books, I do read them too)
My best advice would be to relax, enjoy the closeness b.feeding your baby gives and do what feels right for you, lots of friends/relatives will probably try and give advice, but you will know what feels right. Babies don't stay little for long, make the most of it, and if for some reason you can't bf I'm sure your lo will be ok too.

hello ... and dongrats on your baby to be!
I bf ds until 11mths and dd til 9 mths (would have liked it to be longer , and my answers to your questions are:

1. sometimes! I didn't try to get either of them into any sort of fouting at all for the first 6/8 weeks, just went with the flow. DS was a nightmare. I was determined to be led by him on his routine, and it took us 4 months before we got things sorted really. DD was much easier - again, I followed her lead, but she decided to do she-who-will-not-be-named's routine almost to the letter (against my wishes!!) from about 6 weeks. I did make an effort with her at around 5/6 weeks to keep her awake after feeds (cf baby whisperer), because ds got a real feed to sleep association that caused us ahem, some issues. It worked for her, but she is an easy going lass.
2. er, sometimes! in the early days 2 1/2 to 3 hours, then yes, both of mine stretched to 3 hours fairly easily. Like feetheart, both of mine were very effficient feeders (thank you god)
3. Not in the early days, and (as above)I didn't fight it - they look so contented - fat happy tummy and a nice sleep - who wouldn't!

Unfortunetly, you will hear conflicting theings, becuase sadly, babies have opinions

If you haven't already in your extensive reading extravaganza, you might want to try Elizabeth Pantley's NO Cry Sleep Soln - talks a lot of sense about how baby's sleep and feeding patterns work...

Good luck ... and the most important thing ... ENJOY your wonderful first weeks together!!

Congrats Jennie, not long to go now!

My view, for what it's worth, is that the best thing you can do for yourself now is to completely forget everything you've read, forget the specifics of whether they should play/be woken to finish both boobs/ or whatever......you simply don't know what your individual baby will need, and it's so much easier for you and the baby if you come to it all with an open mind....go with what your baby needs and wants rather than trying to fit her / him into any preconceived idea.

Just from my experience with me and my friends;
I had a crash CS under general, was very unwell, boobs produced NOTHING and DS never latched on; so bottle fed despite passionate wish to breastfeed!
My friends: one had a baby who fed I would say pretty much all the time, 24 hours a day. She was utterly exhausted and it was harder than she ever, ever imagined and it took months for her dd to settle into a routine that was half way human. However she kept at it and BF both her kids till they were 1.
One had a very very sleepy baby who she almost couldn't rouse all day but who fed every hour in the night. She did it for 6 months.
One had a more regular 2 to 3 hour feeder, she had two or three very painful bouts of mastitis but kept on till 6 months.

Those are my friends (I know, I haven't got many! ) but I thought it gives you a little thumbnail picture of just a few 'real' people.

You can see from these examples that every experience is completely different. The only thing that is the same is that the ones who did succeed and BF (eg everyone except me) is very proud of herself and feels great about it!

Very best of good luck to you x

Have to agree with feetheart!

Also,- throw away your books and learn from your baby. Eventually you'll be able to interpret THEIR routine, and then be able to slowly control it. Don't expect too much too soon and as Donk says, don't underestimate how much the birth takes out of you.

The biggest thing to be prepared for is that you'll be trying to establish bf (not easy for most) at a time when you are completely exhausted, unnecessarily scared to death most of the night that you baby might stop breathing, emotionally vulnerable and probably have sore boobs.

My advice:
Get dp or someone to do 'everything' else. You might want to save his holiday, but if dp has any left get dp to take as much as possible.
Have some formula in the house (you don't have to use it, but knowing it is there can take the pressure off a little, - and an odd feed to give yourself a rest may make you feel really guilty, but could prevent you from giving up completely)
Know that if you have a hard time one feed at about 4am in the morning, there are others out there at the same time also struggling.
Understand that sometimes only having 20 mins rest between feeds is normal and that it won't continue forever.

Hope this helps! Get through all that and it's the best thing on earth!

I think all babies are so different that your mantra should be "take one day at a time" with breast feeding. Don't expect too much and enlist lots of support. I was really lucky with ds, after a wonky start (didn't latch on for 3 days) he was a super feeder. He only ever wanted 3/4 hourly feeds from the first week, did none of the annoying bobbing on and off or falling asleep while feeding and we fed successfully for 6 months. I followed baby whisperer's advice about playing and I credit that for his ability to play happily and amuse himself for longer than his friends. But take it as it comes and try to be flexible for your baby. Good luck, how exciting.

Hi there and congratulations on impending arrival.

Have to agree with most of what's already been said - each baby's an individual and so try to just go with the flow until you get to know each other a bit. I've had 2 cs babies; DS1 ended up on formula after about 10 weeks of misery for both of us, but all going much better with DS2 (2.5 weeks, so early days!). Don't know if it could have worked out with DS1, but I am much more relaxed about it all this time round - trying not to worry about timings between feeds, how long at the breast and so on, and it does seem to make things easier. And I'd agree with the person below who says to prepare yourself for how much time you spend feeding - I think perhaps I was a bit resistant about this with DS1 and now just trying to look at a day as 24 hours rather than a 'day' and a 'night' so I don't get too miserable when I've been awake all night feeding - as long as you get some sleep in the 24 hours, it doesn't really matter if it's at 3am or 3pm .

Hi. Good luck with the baby and the b/f. I found it quite tough at first, but I was determined to stick with it, and I'm really glad I did. I b/f dd until she was 8 months.

She settled into her own routine really. The one thing I wish I'd been told was to keep feedig for the first few days until your milk comes in. I though my world had come to an end when she was 3 days old and screamed all night. M/w told me (next day!) that I should have just kept putting her to the breast as this would encourage the milk. Once my milk was in, she fed about every 3 hours during the day, but almost constantly from about 5pm to 9pm . As soon as I'd finished and put her down, she seemed to want more. She then slept for about 4 hours at a time and fed twice in the night.

Don't panic about a routine now - go with what your baby needs and a routine will follow.

Good luck and enjoy your baby

Hi Jenniebibs - congratulations & hope you're enjoying your pregnancy!

• ds has fed approx every 3 hours from birth but had the growth spurts when he fed more frequently (these didn't alter is pattern as much as some though). He stopped his middle of the night feed at about 7 weeks and now goes around 4 hours during the day sometimes. This is his routine though and not something I imposed on him. I've tried feeding him for my convenience (eg early to fit in with travelling etc) and that's no-go!

-When he was tiny he slept after a feed but then he slept most of the time! Now (11wks)he's more likely to be actve. Again, this is just his own pattern.

I'm not good at remembering what he's "supposed" to do and have found that I get most stressed when I try to follow other people's advice about when he should eat or sleep, so mostly I don't and we're both happier for it. That's not to say there's no order, it's just that the order is imposed by my ds not a book or my well meaning mother!

In the early days it's important to know that their stomachs are teeny (size of a walnut comes up a lot) so they don't take much at one go and so your colostrum in the first few days is plently before your milk actually comes in properly (all being otherwise well).

jennie - congrats on impending baby !

the best piece of advice anyone ever gave me about bf:

1. feed on demand - feed whenever baby wants it do not schedule feeds or watch the clock - newborns need feeding when they need feeding (night or day) best way to build up mum's supply and ensure baby gains weight well

1. mv who visited me at home after birth - saw a certain book on my shelf (I had bought it and read it while pregnant and was CONVINCED i could go by the book) - sorry can't name the book as it is banned to mention it on this website: "she said, oh you have xxx book, BURN IT, ha...ha...ha...!!!" she was right i learned to go by my baby's cues to feed and never scheduled. by 3 - 4 months he had developed his own feed/sleep/awake/alert pattern. you will find most bf babies will develop their own pattern if allowed to do so.

The other thing this wonderful, happy hippy mw said was: "relax, enjoy your baby, and don't read too many books". i love the woman, she was the most sensible, caring health prof. i have ever met since the birth of my son and was so positive about babies and bf. i was lucky to have met her.

If you need more help after the birth, please come back here, you will get lots of good advice from the lovely mums here

HI Jennie,
are you fed up yet of being pg, lol...or are you one of those lucky girls that take pg in their stride and don't get a massive bump, lol!
Anyway,I don't know the first book you mentioned and well, the BW Book imodid have not necessarily have the best advice on bf.
Anyway, I think the best thing to do is to be led by your Baby, as it is such an individual thing between each mother and Baby pair, it depends on so many factors, forinstance all women have a different "storage-capacity" in their breasts and BAby's have different habits.
BY all means, introduce a certain rythm to the day, as that will help your Baby to find a routine of their own, but don't get to hung up about a routine, I'd say.
I found actually the best BF advice ever is to be found on the Kellymom website .
All the best for you

TRy not to have any preconceived ideas about how you will feed
Every baby is different
My ds fed for 40 mins every hour and slept the other 20 for his first 5 weeks
I could cheerfully have killed him.
He did settle at 6 wks but I had to try to sort his feeding out but did not want to try anything until my supply was well established

DD on the other hand fed every 3-4 hrs from birth. she would feed, have nappy change play, then other boob then sleep for 3 hrs.
At night she dutifully slept straight after feeding and by 6 wks was going 6 hrs.

if you are really focused on successfully feeding, make sure you have plenty of support after birth, getting your supply established and getting you confident with feeding your baby is key.

SAdly post natally some midwives are so over worked that you get little support, but there are counsellors at most hospitals, so make sure you know where they are
And good luck

neither Clare Byam-Cook or the Baby Whisperer give good bf advice. sorry

if you want a good book, you are better off reading one of the publications by the National Childbirth Trust here there is also a book called 'Best Feeding: Getting Breastfeeding Right for You that is highly recommended.

Message withdrawn

Wow, thanks everyone for such great advice! I suppose I needed an injection of common sense really - I think I'll be returning some of these books to the library... goodbye for now, Baby Whisperer and the one who shall not be named

It sounds like babies have their own ways of doing things and if I get too obsessed with fitting into this or that routine then I'll probably end up feeling a failure and being disappointed, which I definitely DON'T want - I can't wait to finally meet my baby!! and I want to make the most of every second with her.

LucyJu, that's terrible about your dh being in hospital when your dd1 was born. Crohn's is really horrible isn't it - my dh is in remission at the moment but we know it's coming back soon - it really is a massive incentive to persevere with the bf.

Thanks again everyone!

if you are really keen to get practical advice on every day problems, both of these La Leche Leagues books are excellent and i am told are frequently used by mw's involved in bf and bfc's - you may be able to get cheap copies off ebay

this

i also highly recommend www.kellymom.com
the woman who set it up deserves some kind of prize for having the best website ever for bf !

jennie - you sound like a very sensible mum to be

Jennie, finding out where you can get help locally if you do have problems is probably the most valuable thing you can do in advance.

We're not meant to go through this on our own. In the past new mothers would have had much more support from other women in their family who had breast fed.

The kellymom website is fantastic - definitely check that out but there's no substitute ime for face-to-face help.

Hopefully you will be one of those who take to bf really easily though, good luck!

Here teh numbers and weblinks to Breastfeeding support groups!

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers

www.abm.me.uk
Helpline: 0870 401 7711
Offers voluntary mother-to-mother support, counselling and information for breastfeeding women. Helpline open from 9.30am to 10.30pm

NCT Breastfeeding helpline

Breastfeeding Line: 0870 444 8708
The National Childbirth Trust has trained breastfeeding counsellors who can offer individual advice and support

La Leche League

www.laleche.org.uk
24hr Helpline: 020 7242 1278
Helpline offering advice and information on breastfeeding, plus local group meetings.

Breastfeeding Network

www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk
Helpline: 0870 9008787
Offers free, confidential telephone information on breastfeeding and one-to-one local support.