breastfed and bottle fed growth charts - is there a difference?

[contentmum]

My ds is 8 weeks old and his weight is steadily increasing but not staying within the same centile, in fact he has dropped down 3 centiles since he was born. While I am not worried about his feeding and think he is healthy I am obviously a little concerned. As he is bf am wondering if finding a bf groeth chart would be of use - hv said they are not allowed to give us them. Is there a big difference between the two and where can i get hold of one?

Try this: ...breastfeeding growth chart

If you're still worried, the NCT breastfeeding helpline is also really useful.

ejt

content - you hv as most is talking bollocks.

why aren't they allowed to give you a WHO bf chart ? they are no state secret and readily available on UNICEF and WHO and kellymom.com websites.

bf babies grow rapidly in the first 6 months or so (more so than most ff ones) and then slow down in weight after this time.

but generally the expert advice is if your baby is healthy, looks alert and happy, several yellow poos a day and GAINING weight, no need to be concerned. if you demand feed he will be getting all the bm he needs.

you should only worry if he does not look healthy and is consistently LOSING weight. falling down centiles is not the same as losing weight.

content, could you tell us his weight at 8 weeks please ?

dd was bf and was always on the small side at one point she even dropped off the chart but my hv was really good and told me not to worry about it as bf babies were always smaller and she was putting on weight

she is 3 now and still small but chunky and everynow and again will have a huge growth spurt something which she has always done, she doesnt grow or put weight on for ages then wont stop eating! i remember feeling like a cow when she was about 12 weeks old having a growth spurt as i felt she was permanently feeding!

if your baby seems happy and healthy i wouldnt worry to much about it, those growth charts just made me paranoid anyway - all babies are different and grow at different rates

ds is now 8lb 12oz, was 6lb 15 when he was born.

I was given a BF chart that was designed for the red book. That was 9m ago. HV is talking thru her arse.

Jumping in to defend the HV! She is not talking out of her arse, or bollocks ! It is perfectly understandable that they are not allowed to give you a different chart. The current charts in use are not due for a re-look until (I think) 2010 and PCTs are justified, I think, in being careful about making wholesale changes and confusing health visitors and mothers....after all the issue is not the charts but the way they are interpreted.

PCTs are not forced to issue one chart only, and some have indeed taken the decision to have two or even three charts on the go, but my view is that without extra training for HVs, it could backfire.

There is nothing to stop you looking yourself at whatever chart you want!

It's true there is not a great deal of difference in the first months. A baby of 8 weeks looking as if he is dropping will still drop on the bf charts....but that may not matter a jot because weight is only one aspect of health.

at me sticking up for HVs

Content:
I have looked up an old WHO chart for bf infants under 1 year for you on kellymom - he is doing fine.

I will try to post the more recent WHO chart for you. Will look it up when I have time and post it here.

Totally agree though that charts are not the only indicator for a baby and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Oh, apologies to your HV then...to be honest I am so used to hearing balls from HV's that I thought this was yet another "the computer says NO" sort of thing when she said she couldn't give you a bf chart

you are entitled to one I asked for one when I had dd as I had your problem with ds2 it exactly the same and fits in your red book but the curve is not as steep on the weight gains

Different PCTs have different policies. As I said, some PCTs have two charts on the go and give mothers another one for their book, but they are in the minority - it is perfectly reasonable to say 'our local policy is not to give you a second chart'....I'd rather they trained their HVs properly than issued other charts

this

WHO chart for boys up to age 2
only in kilos though - you can convert to lb's using the conversion in your Red Book

Thanks for the links and reassurance.
as i said before i am not really worried about the weight gain as i know he is alert etc but feel as the pct is strongly promoting breast feeding they should also be giving training to hv and using appropriate charts.
In defence of my hv she has asked that if i get hold of one for the red book she would like to know where i got it and would like a copy herself. Appantly there is a charity that will send out the charts but can't find out who.

Charity is Child Growth Foundation, but the charts are not free. Not everyone thinks the charts they issue are solidly evidence-based - sample of babies used is small, ethnically-homogenous and narrow. WHO charts are arguably 'better' if you want to see what well-supported, exclusive breastfeeding looks like across a range of babies from diverse ethnic groups.

In the first weeks, though, the charts all look pretty much the same.

Eep, my baby is 2 pounds heavier than the bf average on that chart. Should I water down her formula a bit? My GP said if she wants food every 2 hours she's thirsty and breast would be automatically more dilute to deal with this but formula is always the same. Any thoughts?

Hi content, I looked up the WHO website again. They have a whole course which is downloadable for people working in the health sector, for childhood growth. Perhaps she could ask her PCT if they will support her to do it as part of her job ?

In fact I am amazed that PCT's don't get all their HV's whose primary job is the care of infants and small children to learn a thing or two about international standards of child growth/development.

Bf babies grow in a similar fashion wherever they are so to me it makes sense to use WHO charts rather than Red Books charts which were not developed for exclusivley bf babies.

Here are the websites:

www.babyfriendly.org.uk
(UNICEF UK bf initiative)

www.who.int/topics/breastfeeding/en/
(WHO bf and infant growth)

This is what the WHO website says about putting together the new cahrts:

"Primary growth data and related information were gathered from 8440 healthy breastfed infants and young children from widely diverse ethnic backgrounds and cultural settings (Brazil, Ghana, India, Norway, Oman and USA). The MGRS is unique in that it was purposely designed to produce a standard by selecting healthy children living under conditions likely to favour the achievement of their full genetic growth potential. Furthermore, the mothers of the children selected for the construction of the standards engaged in fundamental health-promoting practices, namely breastfeeding and not smoking."

Not read all of this but just wanted to say that it is rubbish they are not allowed to give them to you in fact they HAVE to give them to you if you request them even if the have to order them.
Lots of babies fall down the centiles or even shoot up them after birth they will probably setlle on one eventually.
I would not be concerned if you feel he is happy and healthy and if weighing him is going to worry you then do not do it even for a while.

Mcneil don;t water down of thicken up formula ever. It is made to be specifically made up the same every time, if a FF baby is thirsty they should be offered cooled boiled water.

Mcneil don;t water down of thicken up formula ever. It is made to be specifically made up the same every time, if a FF baby is thirsty they should be offered cooled boiled water.

MMcNeil - have you tried a hungry baby formula - so it is digested slower?

Yeah, but it must have been the wrong one, she seemed to posset less, then suddenly projectile vomited the whole feed, so I've given that up. One of her feeds is EBM, some of the others are all varying degrees of EBM, and a couple are mostly or all formula, total 7 or 8. I think thatr doesn't sound like many, but she's taking 150mls sometimes, often wants feeds after 2 hours, and, as I said, weighs above average for birth weight, and because she gets about 2/3 formula to 1/3 breast I worry about the ff baby - obesity link and worry it's because of eating patterns laid down as an infant.

Thanks, will refer to WHO charts rather than red book one although going to get one as a matter of principle...

Just remember that growth charts don't tell us what babies SHOULD way, just what they DO way. Every baby is different. You know your baby and you will know better than any HV, BF counsellor, or red book if your baby needs help. Trust yourself.

Macneil, don't worry about feeding habits ATM. Right now she's still demand-fed, with her feeds meeting her needs at any particular time. Once she's on 3 meals a day plus snacks, and getting used to eating 'appropriate' foods at 'appropriate' times then you can start to consider feeding habits - you've plenty of time to form good ones.

Contentmum - I seem to be in a similar position, with a baby who is gaining and growing, but dropping centiles. General consensus seems to be that, if the baby is well, growing, developing, pooing, weeing etc, then the centile lines are not really important.