Is it really in my baby's best interest for me to exclusively breastfeed him?

PrettyCandles · 2007-02-01T15:27:38+00:00

Ds2 was born very big, but not fat, and went straight into 3m clothing as he was so long. He is now 3.5m and still long - wearing 6m clothing. He is bang on the 50th centile for weight, but, I suspect, rather higher on the centiles for length. He is slender, as were all my babies. So far so good. But he still feeds 3-hourly round the clock, sometimes more often. So is he actually getting enough milk? I know that bm is nutritionally superior, but I worry that he needs more calories than he is getting. Dh, who has always fully supported breastfeeding thinks that I ought to supplement.

MarsLady · 01/02/2007 15:29

Your breasts produce as much as baby needs. No need to look for other calories. DS1 went straight into 3 month clothes when he was born. Exclusive bfing was more than enough for him. How old is he?

Original poster

PrettyCandles · 01/02/2007 15:38

He's 3.5m . From the age of 2w my other two never fed more than once between adult bedtime and 6am-ish, and had started sleeping through by 3m, whereas this one still feeds at least twice at night.

OP posts:

MarsLady · 01/02/2007 15:40

All babies are different honey.

I don't think that he needs extra calories. Your milk is honestly rich enough. Surely the fact that he is growing so well proves that?

tiktok · 01/02/2007 15:41

Nothing you have said about size, growth and feeding frequency is abnormal or even unusual, PrettyCandles - and what is wrong with a suspicion of being 'higher for length'? Length is no longer measured in baby clinics and hasn't been for many years (unless there is something obviously amiss) because it is not an indication that is clinically or developmentally useful. He may well be on a higher centile for length - it doesn't matter a bit.

Can you talk to your HV about this, or other mothers?

Seems a shame to be even talking about supplementing.

If you really think your baby needs more calories, then breastfeed him more often. That's the easiest and most nutritiously appropriate way of getting more calories into a baby, but from what you say....what on earth would be the point?

CanStarveWillStarve · 01/02/2007 15:42

Yes.

3 hourly round the clock doesn't sound unusual for a 3.5m old. Do expect it to be a bit more frequent when you hit the 4 month growth spurt.

Sounds like you were just exceptionally lucky with your other two, and it's left you with unrealistically high expectations - sorry!

Original poster

PrettyCandles · 01/02/2007 15:47

That's what I try to reassure myself with, but the longest stretch of sleep I've had since he was born was a 4-h stint when dh gave him formula on his 8th night. Since then I 've not slept more than 2h at a time, often only 1h, and I don't see how I'm going to cope for much longer this way. When I've had 2-3 bad nights on the trot it affects my supply and ds2 is hungrier during the day as well. I'm begining to wonder whether I'm starving him. Surely if he wasn't hungry he wouldn't need feeding so often?

OP posts:

tiktok · 01/02/2007 16:02

Formula may help him to sleep longer. It does this because of three reasons

i) the bottle giver tends to be 'in charge' of the amount given, encouraging and offering and coercing a bit more into the baby when the baby might 'switch off'
ii) the baby may suck and swallow because that's what 'sucky' babies do, for the pleasure of sucking. Breastfed babies do this, but the milk supply and flow is responsive to their suck in a way that a teat and bottle isn't - bottle fed babies tend to take more in volume as a result which is one of the reasons they tend to be larger than breastfeds after the first 5-6 months
iii) formula milk takes longer to metabolise than breastmilk

None of these reasons work in line with the baby's physiology.

Maybe your baby does wake up because he is hungry in the night - hard to tell. But there is nothing nutritionally wrong with this - he's hungry, he wakes, you feed him, he grows and thrives!

Maybe he is waking just 'cos he is still only 3.5 months old and plenty of babies do this whether they are breastfed or formula fed. It's what some babies do.

It's up to you to decide if you want to give formula (which may or may not work) or to work on other ways of having a less disturbed night, or otherwise more sleep. Your well-being is important, too.

Your tiredness is unlikely to affect your supply - maybe your baby needs feeding more in the night and in the day because of his particular needs at that time, not because of a drop in supply. Whatever - I can understand you need to feel better about all of this and to feel somehow more rested.

But nothing you are doing is wrong, and there is nothing wrong with your milk or your feeding.

If you supplement, you need to know why you are doing it, that's all - and it's not because there is something lacking in your milk or your feeding

tiktok · 01/02/2007 16:03

BTW - 'starving' him????

Eh?

Original poster

PrettyCandles · 01/02/2007 16:11

But surely by now he should be going longer than 2-3 hours between feeds? His feeding pattern has barely changed since he was 3w old. If anything, it's got worse. By about 8w the 2-3am feed was creeping towards 4am, and he was tending to go 4 hours between the middle-of-the-night feeds.

OP posts:

KathyMCMLXXII · 01/02/2007 16:14

Poor you, you must be going crackers.
It sounds like you are doing absolutely brilliantly - it is so tough managing without sleep.
Maybe if you do decide to go down the supplementing route, you can do it just very occasionally so as to minimise the effect on your supply; it's amazing the difference just one good night can make.

Gameboy · 01/02/2007 16:15

Pretty Candles - any way you can express during the day and get your DH to give him a bottle of EBM during the night? That way you get a longer stretch of sleep without having to resort to formula?

This was the big mistake I made with my first, which I sorted with DS2 - realised that 'exclusively breast-fed didn't have to mean actually 'on the breast' for every single one of those feeds.

tiktok · 01/02/2007 16:15

I dunno, Pretty - I can't add anything really to what I have said! His pattern is normal, it's not even especially unusual, and there is no 'should' or 'should not' about gaps between feeds, as babies are individuals

Gameboy · 01/02/2007 16:16

Maybe he's having his 4 month growth spurt early??

NotQuiteCockney · 01/02/2007 16:18

Are you cosleeping? It makes those night feeds much less of a disruption to your sleep, in my experience. I'm pretty sure I managed to sleep through some night feeds with DS2.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 01/02/2007 16:19

DS was like this PC. DD wasnt. Both the same size, and proportions etc. DD was sleeping 11 hours a night at 11 weeks. She is unusual though.

DS was more like you describe.

In answer to your OP - yes.

WriggleJiggle · 01/02/2007 16:25

Gameboy is right, is there any chance of getting someone else to give a 'middle of the night' ebm feed? If you're not keen on that what about if dp(?) could get up in the night when needed, move baby into position, and then return baby to baby's bed afterwards. It may allow you to sleep through the feed if there was someone else to sort out the little one.

yellowrose · 01/02/2007 16:30

Pretty - babies have come in all shapes and sizes throughout history. What did mums do when formula was not an option (i.e. before it was invented)? Their babies did not starve, they were just given bm whenever they needed it and they survived.

Your baby sounds very healthy. If he is on 50th centile he is AVERAGE weight for his age (so 50% of babies are below his weight and 50% are above) and he is way bigger than my son ever was, who has only ever been between 9th and 25th centiles, even now as toddler he is small. He was excl. bf until 6 months.

As for sleep, there is no conclusive evidence/research that suggests ff babies sleep better. If anything they get sick more often and upset tummies, etc, i.e. in fact plenty of reasons why they may not be fantastic sleepers as some would claim.

My DS was a rubbish sleeper until he was around 9 - 10 months old. Do you know what got him to sleep through finally ? It wasn't solids and I never gave formula. He slept better because he started to crawl faster and faster and was beginning to pull himself up and walk around the room at this stage. So he got very tired due to physical movement, that's why he slept longer.

Of course if you wish to introduce formula now, that is your choice. Just PLEASE don't get pushed into by people who know little about bf babies.

serenity · 01/02/2007 16:45

I introduced top up feeds for DS1 (95 centile) after advice from friends and HV - given because I was so stresses btw, and dropped them again after a few days because they made absolutely no difference to his sleeping and eating patterns. I also tried last feed formula feeds to try and get him to sleep longer at night (he was doing 11.30/2am/5am) and it made no difference then either. With the exception of DD sleeping through from 4weeks until 4 months, DS2 and DD followed the same pattern (all big babies) It did get better eventually, and it is survivable although for me it was co-sleeping that kept me sane (in their cot until the 2am feed, and then in with us so that I could do the next one half asleep laying down) I think that some babies just want or need to feed like this.

tiktok · 01/02/2007 16:52

The thing is that there is some research that shows formula fed babies do tend to sleep longer than breastfed babies at night (ie wake less frequently) but this is a tendency, not a prediction for an individual baby. Yellow is right, I think - I don't know of any research that shows a bottle given at night (to an otherwise breastfed baby) prevents waking, but experience and observation shows it sometimes 'works' and sometimes 'doesn't work' and sometimes, makes things rather worse.

It's a gamble, and only the mother can decide how to play it.

A mum can feel more rested at night in lots of ways other than giving formula - some good ideas on this thread already.

Aloha · 01/02/2007 17:00

Certainly no need for other calories. 3hourly feeding at 3months sounds blimmin good to me!

nogoes · 01/02/2007 17:01

When ds was a baby he was formula fed and I think at 3.5 months I was still feeding him at least once in the night maybe more. Most of my ante-natal friends were still breastfeeding and nearly all their babies slept through! So I don't think formula feeding would make a difference he is probably just a baby that likes to eat a lot. Ds didn't go through the night until he was 5.5 months which is around the time that I introduced solids but I don't think the solids had anything to do with it, it just seemed that his appetite was not as big once he got to this age and he was more satisfied.

Aloha · 01/02/2007 17:01

Oh, and my ds never slept better with formula, and dd who was exclusively breastfed slept a million times better than my ds who was mixed fed. Neither exactly slept for England, mind!

Original poster

PrettyCandles · 01/02/2007 18:19

Thanks for your responses. I suppose I was just lucky with ds1 and dd. I suppose also that it's more a sleep issue (for me and dh!) than a feeding issue, if 3-hourly is normal at 3m.

We were co-sleeping until a week or two ago. Now ds2 is in his cot until I crack at about 4am and stop feeding him sitting up and then returning him to the cot - instead I feed him lying down and let him stay in the bed with us. Things have certainly improved since he's been in the cot, he wakes less often if I feed him sitting up and if he doesn't sleep snugged up to me.

I had considered trying expressing, but I've never been much good at that, and with two others to run around I've no confidence that I will be able to produce much. But if I collect all the drips and drops that I can manage over a few days, then hopefully there will be enough for ds to give ds2 a middle-of-the-night feed once or twice a week.

OP posts:

Kiff · 01/02/2007 18:34

can i put the cat amongst the pigeon...

perhaps you could try some gentle persuasion to try to get him to give you one longer stretch in the middle of the night.

I'm thinking a bottle of water - at stupid a.m. - even if it settles him for an extra half an hour, it'll give him the hint - stop him getting too used to having feeds at the same frequency day and night. With luck, the water will settle him, but not incentivise him to wake on subsequent nights. It may just be that he hasn't understood 'nightime' properly, rather thsn that he's not getting enough calories.

Kiff · 01/02/2007 18:34

can i put the cat amongst the pigeon...

perhaps you could try some gentle persuasion to try to get him to give you one longer stretch in the middle of the night.

I'm thinking a bottle of water - at stupid a.m. - even if it settles him for an extra half an hour, it'll give him the hint - stop him getting too used to having feeds at the same frequency day and night. With luck, the water will settle him, but not incentivise him to wake on subsequent nights. It may just be that he hasn't understood 'nightime' properly, rather thsn that he's not getting enough calories.