Straining and uncomfortable

[podlet]

HIi,
I am new to Mumsnet and wondered if anyone
could help with a question about my baby is who 7 weeks old. I breast fed him for the first 4 weeks (expressed because he wouldn't latch on) and over the last 3 weeks I have gradually introduced formula. He has been soley on formula (Cow & Gate) now for just over a week.The problem is that he has been straining going red and crying throughout the day and finally does a poo at about 3 oclock. I am worried because he looks uncomfortable and in pain most of the time straining for just one poo! The poo is not solid just the usual mustard type.
On the breast milk he used to go about 4 times a day.

Thank you for your help

We also had a lengthy labour where ds head was badly positioned, so that may be another thing we have in common?

I met another MoS today - we're so much more common than you'd think. She said that her dd (yes a daughter) had a problem with straining when she swapped from breast to formula. After less than a week of straining there was blood in her poo and that turned out to be a lactose intollerance. Something for us all to keep an eye out for I think. However the lo continued straining particularly between 4am and 7am up until she was 16 weeks old.

ds managed his poo finally at 2pm today - it was the most full his nappy has ever been it was all over his body suit and dungarees - messy boy

ooh ooh we've got something else in common - i love firefly too! this profile thing is a great laugh!!

Best damn show in the 'verse Mind you I'm not such a crazy fan that I'd call ds Jayne as some of my friends suggested.

Meanwhile the straining continues sigh

Hi Urban, good to have you on board!
At last we have a possible moment of progress?! Ds diagnosed as lactose intolerant on Thurs (no great suprise as I am) so we swapped from C&G Comfort to SMA Soy formula, (the weird thing is that he has developed lactose intolerance since being on formula as while I was bf him he tested fine - poss because he hadn't been exposed to it before as I don't have dairy) anyway... after much straining and me starting him off he actually managed to do a poo on his own yesterday and today - thats the first time in eight weeks! as things go that is huge progress for us, he has also been able to blow bubbles on his own for the first time in ages which is a huge relief for him and seems to reduce his discomfort massively. (Incedentally ClareBos, before I started helping, him mine used to frequently strain till he was sick, don't know if it upset him or me more!)
Anyway, super chiro/osteo who is the only health prof that has been any use through this is really keen to hear all about our trials and tribulations, hes going to do a paper/study on it. He would love to hear all our gory stories, can be totally annon, he just wants to know stuff like any probs in preg, what sort of labour/birth (incedentally, mine was a pretty long labour too, another poss link?) were/are we taking any medicines, did we bf, if so how long, was it expressing or other, which formula if ff, how do we sterilise our kit - steam, chemical etc etc etc - anything we can think of that might show similarities and diffs so that other mums can be helped. I don't know about you girls, but I have been pretty shy about chatting to people I know about this, especially as I have to actually help my poor lo to poo, so maybe there are a lot more of us out there than we know?
Incedentally, I have also found that clockwise tummy massage helps, as does a homeopathic remedy by New Era that is for colicky pain and flatulence, really helps reduce wind and uncomfortable tummies, find it in Tesco etc and almost all chemists, in a pink and white box - works on me when I've pigged out too!
Hope you are all doing ok and your los aren't too uncomfortable.
Sweet dreams to you all!

Oh MM, I'm so pleased that you've found something to help your lo. Here's hoping he continues to improve.

I'm quite happy to help out your chiro/osteo, the more people know about this the better.

ds is still straining although at the moment he does sometimes go for hours (asleep or awake) where he manages not to strain. I'd like to hope that this is the beginning of the end of the strainfest. Or it could just be wishful thinking.

well my ds seems to be a bit better since i took some seonokot, so maybe it is my diet after all?
wish i coukd say it helped me, but i'm still shitting broken glass...

sorry, TMI.....

Hi Urban,
Have you tried taking linseed? I swear by it, and as well as keeping things regular it also seems to do wonders for my skin - bonus! (its full of omega something-or-other) You can get it in any health food shop as well as Tesco etc. The best kind is Golden Linseed, and you want to get the one that is already cracked, then the goodness can get out much faster, soaking it overnight also helps by making it easier to digest.

Urban - it sounds a bit patronising to say this, but it might be dehydration, I had the same problem when I was bf. I drank a pint of water with every feed and that seemed to help.

This weekend has been bad for straining and ds has been really really grumpy. He has his jabs this afternoon, which is not going to help. Wish me luck.

I've got news.

I had a long conversation with the health visitor today. She finally stopped saying that the straining was colic and we talked about poo.

Apparently bottle fed baby poo should be pretty solid, not hard, but certainly not runny. ds poo is sort of slushy, it's never been solid and is often quite watery. This is a sign of "possible" intollerance to the formula milk. So some of the ingredients in the milk are literally going straight through him.

This also explains ds massive intake of formula (he has 6-7 bottles/day and between 4-8 fl oz every time). He needs to drink more of the milk to get what he needs out of it.

Of course armed with this information I ran to the gp, who nodded sagely (he's the kindly old grandad type of gp) and prescribed Infasoy. I then went to every pharmacy in a mile radius, none of them had it in stock, but one promised to have it for me by tomorrow afternoon.

I am very excited. By this time tomorrow we might see some improvement. I can't believe that something as simple as poo consistency could have been the key. How does this compare to everyone else's lo poo?

Of course it may not work. (Oh please let it work).

That sounds exactly like my lo! He had terrible almost diarrhoea with un-digested lumps in it but none of the health proffs mentioned that it might be a sign of intolerance, although my wonderful mother in law had said she was sure that he wasn't digesting his milk and it was going through him way too fast - he was straining and trying to go after every single feed. Have now got him on SMA Wysoy, though will try and get a appointment with GP tomorrow to see if we can get Infasoy. Getting towards the end of my tether with this, its been going on for nearly three months now and I am just so tired, why wont anyone help us?

MM, are you saying that the soya milk your lo is on hasn't helped? Or has it helped, just not a lot? Apparently there's little to choose between infasoy and wysoy, they're just different brands.

Meanwhile ds has been acting very strangely since he got his first taste of soya milk yesterday. Firstly he loves the stuff, he ate way more than he normally would, culminating in a feeding frenzy between 10pm and midnight. He then appeared to be buzzing like someone had given him speed, he wouldn't sleep even though he was very tired. Then at midnight after 20 minutes of intensive cuddling he fell asleep in his cot and slept until 7.30am. He's never slept through the night before, and he never needs a cuddle to persuade him to sleep in his cot, which he usually loves.

As for the straining, the jury's still out. He's straining less (the early morning session didn't happen this morning), although as I type this he's just done a big strain . I suppose the real proof will come with his next poo.

There are two reasons why the med. profs. don't help us. One is that no-one knows much about babies, I have been told that if they eat, sleep, poo and wee there's nothing to worry about. The second is that the NHS is stretched to breaking point. There are many (myself included) who believe it's already broken. Tests, time and prescriptions all cost the NHS money, which they don't have. Take comfort in the fact that if there was something very very wrong with your son then the top private paediatricians would be called in and would be eager to solve the problem, if only for their own kudos.

The only way to deal with the NHS is to push and push until they get it right, self diagnose as far as you can and never walk away with an answer that doesn't satisfy you. Oh and remember not to shout at the staff (it only makes them crankier and it genuinely isn't their fault most of the time). It may seem extreme, but I was misdiagnosed and then operated on incorrectly in an NHS hospital less than 18 months ago, it's made me much more aggressive in my dealings with drs.

And that's my rant for the day

Wehay! Things are looking up today.
Was really fed up with it all last night but its so funny how things go.
Took ds to doc this morn to get Infasoy on prescription and she gave him an internal just to make sure there was nothing physically wrong. Also gave us some glycerine suppositories - said that they might just encourage him to push and that they wouldn't do any harm at all.
Got home and he was straining quite a bit so took nappy off to put in suppository and while I was getting everything ready he managed to do a huge poo all on his own! I just can't believe it, this is the first time since the beginning of November! Personally I think it is being on the Soy that has helped him, he's been on it for exactly one week today - will keep you posted but fingers crossed!

Way to go baby MM!

This gives me hope as ds has returned to normal sleep and normal straining patterns again, maybe he needs a week to get all the old milk out of his system?

Yup, its all looking good CB, managed again this morning without tooooo much prior straining. I definately think it has taken a week to get rid of the old milk in his system and for his body to get used to the new stuff, so keep persevering. A word of warning, although you have prob discovered by now, soya poo smells awful!

That's fantastic news, I was expecting quite smelly poo as the milk itself doesn't smell good. ds hasn't done a poo since he started on the new milk, although the straining and screaming is quite frequent at the moment so there should be poo soon.

I just took him to a sing and sign session and he strained and screamed all the way through, everyone else was looking at me as though it was my fault. argh!

ds just managed 2 little solid poos. He strained and screamed and was obviously uncomfortable, but they came out looking like they should. I hope this is a step in the right direction. It's worn him out - he's fast asleep now.

Just wondering what happened to the other MoS folks - are you lurking? Let us know how you're getting on!

Things still looking good at this end. Lo managed to do a few rabbit droppings on his own this morning with only a bit more than a normal amount of straining, though was getting a bit worried about him being too constipated - don't know which is worse, that or diarrhoea - so I popped in a suppository that the gp gave me. Then, joy of joys, while we were out this afternoon the wee man suddenly went rather quiet then let out the most enormous volley of farts and did a huge proper poo. I don't know who was more relieved, him or me.
Now however, I'm rather in a quandry as I don't know what is making the difference, soya milk, suppositories or just getting bigger, he was 16weeks on friday. Still, we are making headway so things are deffinately on the up.
Hope your ds isn't suffering too much CB, I'm crossing my fingers for you!

I'm glad to hear things are looking up MM.

Yesterday ds did 7 poos, all of them different consistencies and colours! I realise he needs to settle into the new milk and it's only been 5 days, but it's just so confusing.

The straining seems to have settled down, he now only strains just before he poos and even then it's only when the poo is very big or very solid. Although it's a huge strain.

I am pretty close to being completely fed up of this at the moment, I can't even tell whether he's really improving anymore.

Oh poor you CB, don't worry, it will get better, and every day he is bigger, stronger, older and closer to growing out of it!
Have noticed that now that ds is more used to the milk he is only wanting to go two or three times a day, up until now he has been straining at least after every feed and between as well. As far as I'm concerned this would support the intolerance theory - if you are putting something in your tummy that it doesn't like it is going to try and get rid of it.
I have found that the suppositories really help - at least I think they do?! When the doc gave them to me I thought she was mad cos he wasn't constipated but they seem to give him a bit of a kick start when hes straining, not sure if its cos it gets his muscle working or what, but I would def say they are worth a try. Like you lo, ds has different consistency every time, but they still seem to help.
Keep your chin up hon, and just think what a lucky little chap your ds is to have a mummy that is so worried for him and trying so hard to help!

hey - i'm still lurking! i phoned the HV last week as i was getting really quite concerned, but she really couldn't've been less worried. anyway, i've upped my own fruit and veg intake and that seems to have helped, although he's still doing every shade of the dark green-mustard yellow spectrum. the HV said that some babies just make more of a fuss to do a poo than others, but sometimes it doesn't bother him at all, and sometimes seems to really hurt him!

it's nice to hear some of you making progress! keep up the good work!

podlet - sorry if someone has mentioned this already, but sounds like he may be constipated. formulas are more difficult to digest than bm, which explains why he would have pooed more when he was bf. sorry, no words of advice as i am not familiar with this, but can't they give babies something for constipation ?

The constant straining is back today, straining crying and no poo. ds is pretty grumpy about it too. DH suggested osteopathy again, I feel as though we're back where we started.

I think you're right MM, maybe I just have to wait for him to grow out of it. At least the soya milk means he has some solid poo.

Thanks for the support in the meantime!

Poor you CB, and your lo!
Meant to say that when ds is straining badly I pop him on his changing mat, undo his nappy and lift his legs right up to his tummy/nose - seems to really help him and even if he can't poo he can then get rid of air which makes him so much more comfortable. My fabulous MinL also taught me to massage his right buttock - apparently the colon runs behind it and this sometimes helps him to get things going, as does massaging round his tummy in a clockwise direction.
I would def give the osteopath a go, ours has been fab and although it hasn't been a cure, a couple of times after going ds has been able to do the next poo normally. Don't suppose you are anywhere near Oxford are you?

Nowhere near Oxford, unfortunately. Although I do have a recommendation for an osteopath in London (where we are). You're the second MoS who's said that the osteopathy relieved the symptoms, but didn't cure them.

Yesterday ds was utterly miserable, lots of screaming in pain and straining, but very little poo. So far today he's been a perfect baby. Alert, responsive and only grumbling when he got bored of his playmat. He managed a mostly solid poo this morning with minimal straining. tbh I've stopped looking for patterns as I often end up disappointed.

The only thing that the soya milk has definitely done is make him sleep through the night, he's almost managed a week now of at least 7 hours in a row. People keep telling me to be grateful and I am, but I'd rather he could poo without screaming!!

How funny, my lo has been sleeping through brilliantly since he has been on soya as well. He is doing so much better, yesterday and the day before he did two proper poos completely on his own, just like a normal baby - I nearly cried I was so relieved!
I would definately give the suppositories a go if you can bears it, they seem to have really helped my lo, its almost as if they remind his body what to do.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we are on the home stretch now - no poo today but lots of bubbles and no straining either, much happier baby all round.
Hang on in there CB, you are doing great!