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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Help with resuming bfing - paed has prescribed formula which is helping, but I want to find cause so can bf, not just solution in formla!

9 replies

JingleBelle · 18/01/2007 19:04

Please can anyone help me? I breastfed my DS from birth. I was told in the hospital he latched on fine and we fed well at home too. Then a couple of weeks in, he started wetting through at night (out nappy, into clothes, onto Moses Basket). Thought maybe was nappy size, so tried a few. Was a pain, but not a big problem really, except he was uncomfortable a lot - really struggling when he needs to pass a dirty nappy. He was also bringing back a lot of milk after feeds. Then, the small gains in weight he had made, stopped. At 6 weeks, he even lost 1/2 an ounce. By now had been to BF Clinic a couple of times, but they said that all babies posset and that he was latching fine and showed me how to feed lying down too. But, still no improvement. Birth weight was 7.1, by 10 weeks was only 9.2 - was plateauing on chart. He was uncomfortable, still bringing back lots and would writhe in pain sometimes after feeding. His nappies had degenerated into green slime. Eventually ended up in hospital with suspected pyloric stenosis, but diagnose reflux and gave domperidone and ranitidine. Reviewed one week later by Consultant at hospital, who said as he had only put on 5ozs in 10 days, he needed to be topped up with formula. She prescribed Nutramigen, a hypoallergenic formula, which I thought was because of allergies in our family and blood in his nappies on a couple of occasions. One week later, with me still bf and topping up with one or two 120ml bottles per day, he had put on 1lb and 2ozs. Consultant satisfied formula had worked and said see in 6 weeks. Vomiting did not improve, still discomfort, although seemed to be lessened by drugs. Christmas was hell - averaged 4-6 hours sleep a night, not necessarily all in one go, still cried a lot and was always wanting to be fed, but when I fed, he would feed for a few mins then pull off (without letting go), then want more, this would go on until I couldn't stand the pain. Finally after christmas, the GP upped the dosage of medicine, but still didn't help (incidentally DS still wetting through on average 2x per night every night). New years, I had read up some more and thought symptoms could be an intolerance, so although I had already cut out dairy and I myself have a wheat intolerance, so can't eat that, I cut out soya, eggs and nuts also. Then couldn't wait for improvement - knackered and upset at upset DS, so did trial of just formula for 69 hours (I pumped meantime to try and keep supply) - within 24 hours, he was transformed, feeding better, going longer between feeds, not wetting through so much (not at all one night) and sleeping better. On the second day, he passed a full dirty nappy without so much as a whimper - unheard of before. I then introduced low allergenic diet for myself - basically fish, chicken, turkey, veg, fruit, rye bread, oat cakes, rice cakes, hummous, only things that are low allergenic, but plenty of them and resumed bfing. By this stage, my milk wasn't enough and he has steadily had more formula. Saw consultant for follow up and she said she could discharge him (he's now 13lb 13ozs) - I asked about allergy testing, but she said didn't think he needed it and she only prescribed hypoallergenic formula so I would use it!! Basically feel I have been conned into formula feeding and don't know why my bm is not enough.
So, is there anyone out there who can advise if there is anyway I can resume bfing and what could possibly be causing him to vomit more after my bm than formula, why he wets through on my bm and not on formula (so much) and why he struggles so much with passing dirty nappies on bm but not formula - he really is up from 5am struggling with it and then finally does biz at 8am (every day) - I think otherwise I am going to have to give up on bfing for his sake as much as mine!
Please don't post with pros and cons of bf and ff - I know all of those and heartily endorse bf, but I'm at the end of my tether with coping with this. Others on my post-natal board have suggested seeing if mears or tiktok can help?!

OP posts:
munz · 18/01/2007 19:15

no advice i'm afraid but didn't want you to fall out of active convos.

can't really think of anything except see a BF councillor, and possibly see if your own GP would do some allergy tests?

3andnomore · 18/01/2007 19:28

this website has a lot of fabulous Info, there might be something on there for you

Other than that, hm, sounds like bf made your lil one colicky....this can be if they suck to much air...i.e. not the perfect latch or if they get to much foremilk (more lactose in that)...did/do you have a very fast letdown? If so, feeding lying down wiht Baby on top might be an option, as it's a gravity thing.
Did/Do you changed sides? Keeping a lil one on the same side for a stretch of ca.4 hours (i.e. everytime the lil one wants feeding , you feed from that side), this is another trick if you have lots of foremilk. Especially as you say that the Nappys were green, this is often a sign of to much foremilk!
Sometimes it can help to put a Baby onto a feeding schedule, and I know this is really controversial, and personally I have not done this, but with some Babys it can encourage them to take better feeds and stops them getting so much wind!
As with gastric reflux, my boys all had the kind that makes them Happy Chuckers...i.e. they did puke up loads and loads, but still gained weighed fine and it didn't seem to bother them to much, wiht your lil one it's obviously different, as it does hurt him, poor Baby....the meds is something "you" (your childs docs)will have to "play" about with, i.e. there is no one suits all. But having the Baby in a more upright position can be helpful....phonebook under headend of the cot, kind of thing...you can actually buy a proper wedge thing ...the Babywhisperer used one on one of her programmes a fair while ago, not sure if her website is still going, seeing that she isn't alive anymore.
As for diet, you obviously have tried a fair bit, and this is more anecdotal, but wiht ms I thought he might be dairy intolerant, as everytime I drank milk it seemed worse, however, then I noticed after greasy food in general he would be worse, and at the time I drank loads of full fat milk, so, it was the fat in the milk, not the dairy part....!
Really don't know if any of this is of any help, but hopefully someone will come along that can answer your questions.

foxinsocks · 18/01/2007 19:38

jinglebelle, I don't post this lightly at all but my dd was put on nutramigen (confirmed milk allergy when I tried formula at 3-4 months as I had to go back to work) and it help ENORMOUSLY with her screaming, eczema, reflux and everything else and when I breastfed, all the bad symptoms came back.

Later on (when she was 1ish) it was confirmed that she was allergic to not only dairy but milk and eggs.

I was so relieved that the nutramigen gave her relief that I happily gave up breastfeeding and didn't really question why .

If you don't feel guilty about it, just let him have the nutramigen. It could be that he has yet-to-be-found allergies that you're not able to second guess - it may just be that his digestive system is still immature and it happens to have clicked with the nutramigen.

I don't really know what else to say - how old is he now? Have you tried mixing a bit of breastmilk in with a bottle of nutramigen?

foxinsocks · 18/01/2007 19:39

soya and eggs I meant ( not milk duh!)

Place · 18/01/2007 20:11

Have you tried cutting out ALL dairy from your diet for at least 3 weeks? - it takes at least 2 weeks to clear from your system and another week or two from the babes, so you won't otice anything till then.

Have you thought of or tried a cranial ostepath or chiropractic for baby? - the fisrt or three vertebrae at the top of the neck are the ones that the nerves etc. for the stomach and mouth/eating comes between, and if they are a bit squished it might cause a problem - one treatment is usually all that's needed.

I agree that less than optimal positioning can make all the difference with breast feeding - imagine trying to drink a Mcdonalds thick shake through a skinny straw - it'd take you ages to drink, make your mouth ache through all that sucking, perhaps get your stomach rumbbling in anticipation and then you stop before your've finished because you can't be bothered any more. a Bit like a baby not feeding well at the breast.

As for the pooing being easier with formula - perhaps it's more a case of
diarheoa and just 'falling out' rather than being passed?

As for the baby trying to pull of without letting go, at this age it's a classic sign for 'more milk please' - he is trying to stimulate more milk to come out, and having been bottled fed for a bit, even though you were pumping, the supply could well have reduced below his need. How aout switching to the other breast if he does that and then back again if he does it again. ---I know about foremilk etc. but if he's not actively feeding, then he's getting NO milk!

I would feel really cross about being 'conned' into formula - they should be reported! What other tests did they do at the hospital apart from weighing him - look at development signs? test thyroid function (for you and baby) etc.?

You could try to improve your milk supply (got an domperidone left to take yourself? how about fenugreek capsules and porridge oats.

Perhaps talking to a counsellor might help

marbeth · 18/01/2007 20:32

Hi Jinglebelle

It may be worth trying colief drops.Not when you give him the nutramigen feeds.Prior to the breat feeds can be mixed with breat milk.

JingleBelle · 18/01/2007 21:26

Thanks Foxinsocks for your input, it is good to hear from someone who has been in the same position - I think the problem is that I feel guilty about not being able to breastfeed him (my own guilt complex, I have always said to others that whatever makes Mum happy makes baby happy, but it is so hard to say that to myself!) and feel a bit of a failure. I'm glad to hear that your DD was fine on nutramigen. I think we're getting complicated now because he seems to have sore gums (possible sign of teething to come), so he just wants to suck/chew all the time! Everyone keeps telling me I've given it a good go (he was exclusively bf to 11 weeks) and he looks much happier and healthier now, but still I cling on to a wish to bf him.
Thanks for the infor Place - I have not eaten any dairy since he was a few weeks old - he's 19 weeks tomorrow - so it's definitly out his system - I'm used to looking at labels on things due to my wheat intolerance. It may be that other possible allergens are still in our systems as it's been only 11 days since cutting all out. He has had cranial osteopathy and been signed off by her, so at least we know he's been straightened out! I will try other feeding positions and didn't know I could just go 4 hours on one side, so will see what happens there. I might try a feeding marathon for next couple of days and see how that goes (without ff). I did guess that's what he meant when he kept pulling off, so have switched and switched sides, but he's still hungry - except at night when I've had a few hours to build up supply.
No, hospital didn't do any tests, they're satisfied that formula is doing the trick - just seems strange when we spend all pregnancy hearing that breast is best, for them to be satisfied with formula as an answer without knowing cause!
Thanks 3andnomore for the website, I'll take a look and the feeding advice. I know about foremilk, it's just I don't know how to get him to take the hindmilk as well, but will perservere with feeding on one side for a few hours as much as I can.
Thanks for your time and thoughts this evening!

OP posts:
foxinsocks · 19/01/2007 18:53

nutramigen is normally very well tolerated (by those with dodgy digestion it seems!)

try and mix some of your milk in with the bottle - if he reacts, then it's possibly something in your milk and it may because the formula is hypoallergenic that it works so well

if he's not reacting to the breastmilk mixed in with the nutramigen then it could be worth seeing a breastfeeding counsellor to rule out any problems with position, latch, supply etc.

hippydippy · 21/03/2007 22:39

Hi Jinglebelle

Have just read your 18th Jan message and saw so many similarities with my own experience of breastfeeding that I had to write to you even though it's two months later!

Had my baby at end of Nov and he breastfed badly from the start - on/off, writhing around, crying and fussing. Thought it might be because he had probs latching on but a bf counsellor friend said it was fine. Then by new year he was screaming in between feeds and feeding for 3-5mins a go, putting on very little weight and hardly sleeping. He was admitted to hospital and diagnosed with silent reflux and initially given gaviscon and ranitidine. These worked well for a while, then the crying and fussing at feeds returned.
After numerous visits to the doctor (who did not know about silent reflux - nor did my health visitor) I got my baby referred to a gastro peadiatrician who put him on ranitidine and domperidone. The domperidone was such a large amount that he would spit it out and so I gave up trying to give it to him. We went back to the peadiatrician who prescribed losec and gave him an allergy test (still waiting for the results).
He is a bit better on losec but has now developed a hacking cough and am not sure whether this is another symptom of the reflux or a coincidental cold.
It's all such a worry and a shame as I was so looking forward to breastfeeding my baby. I even got to the stage of trying formula just to see if he could put on more weight that way but he absolutely refused the bottle.
I have found that the reflux is a psychological as well as physical problem for the baby, and that he often feeds better when he's sleepy - you could try that if you are still determined to bfeed. He has also picked up on my stress during feeding so I try to stay as calm as possible.
Let me know how things are going, and if anyone else out there with a refulx baby wants to chat I'm more than happy to!!

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