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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Urgent advice needed. My sil who has diabetes had a daughter today, the hospital are giving the baby formula, saying she is not feeding enough

51 replies

Overrun · 10/01/2007 16:17

The baby blood sugar levels were pretty good, at 2.9 and they have to be over 2.6. She has been told that she has to bf every 3 hours, and the baby was held to the breast in the theatre to avoid a hypo.
Now as pro bfing as I am, I know that medically the babys blood need to be stable, but does any one have experience of this.
Predictably there has been no offer of specialist help to bf, only usual crap support offered on maternity wards (sorry sure some midwifes are good, but a lot aren't)
I am worried that this could lead to her not being bf, as the first couple of days are so important. My sil really wants to bf, its her first btw
What annoys me, that they are saying the baby doesn't know how to feed, I guess this happens, but surely its more likely that the latch isn't right or sil hasn't been helped enough. Baby is midterm btw, and alert and healthy.
Thanks in advance.

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Overrun · 10/01/2007 17:20

Very funny thread
I was so lucky with one of my midwifes or went against the flow to support me to bf the dts. She called me a "warrier mum", as I was so fierce about it

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Overrun · 10/01/2007 17:21

the past thread I mean, that hunkermunker posted me to, really must get my shit together here

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MarsLady · 10/01/2007 17:22

This I know hinker.... it was in response to your saying tiktok linked you an article.

Overrun · 10/01/2007 17:23

hunker I haven't got your email yet, but will let you know when I have, sorry to disturb you at work.

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hunkermunker · 10/01/2007 17:25

Doh, sorry, Marsy!

Overrun, don't worry - am always happy to help!

VeniVidiVickiQV · 10/01/2007 17:28

Overrun - methinks you aren't disturbing her

Overrun - you need to make it clear to SIL that she may be a patient, but, she is ultimately in charge of her care, and her baby's care.

She cannot, and should not be railroaded into doing something by Doctors, Midwives or Nurses purely because it makes their end of the job easier/quicker. Because that is what they are doing.

Overrun · 10/01/2007 17:31

I'll try and do that VVV. It occurs to me that as a first time parent, a hospital can almost hoodwink you into forgetting that this baby is yours, not theirs. And then in retrospect you can sometimes look back and think "why did I let them talk me into that, or do that". As you are just starting to grapple with the concept of becoming a parent, it is hard to stand up for you and yours. Plus you are usually knackered and if not in pain, uncomfortable
What I am trying to say, you can see how easy it is to give in. After all they must know best, and they can prey on your fears sometimes I think.

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hunkermunker · 10/01/2007 17:36

I'm fairly sure I'd not have had the balls to stand up to a midwife with DS1, had I had GD with him.

That's why I feel SO strongly about this (you might've noticed!).

NAB3 · 10/01/2007 17:38

One midwife told me not to be so stupid when I told her my scar had come open. (It had, oozed for 12 hours, months of doctor trips until sorted). Another told me off at 3AM because my area was meesy. I had a couple of tshirts on the floor....

Overrun · 10/01/2007 17:49

One midwife, literally laughed at my attempts to bf ds1, and then after a particularly difficult time of getting him latched on properly, she came and expected me to just whip him off so she could demonstrate how to bath hime ffs
She was particularly vile.
Hunker still haven't got your email, strange but true. I will keep checking.

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 10/01/2007 17:52

Indeed Overrun.

They often discourage homebirths, want to medicalise everything, and then treat women given birth like a production line. I think, often, it is easily forgotten that this is probably THE biggest event in a couple/woman's life, and the end result is so precious.

Poor treatment, bullying, lack of care/attention, rudeness, impatience etc etc is often part of this "magical" experience for parents in a hospital, that they often didnt want to have to be in the first place.

Sorry....rant appears to have taken over somewhat

Ladymuck · 10/01/2007 17:52

True - I definitely can't imagine many first time mums demanding their baby to have an IV drip rather than a syringe feed of forumla . Will await news of the outcome with anticipation!

Overrun · 10/01/2007 17:58

VVV its good to have a rant now and again , and Ladymuck you are probably right, not many first timers would, probably lots of mothers wouldn't have the guts to do that
We will see...

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hunkermunker · 10/01/2007 17:59

I've sent it again - how odd!

hunkermunker · 10/01/2007 18:04

I think the midwife was surprised...

I told the paed not to mention the F-word to me again, because DS2 wasn't having it

Overrun · 10/01/2007 18:11

I've got it Hunker and I have replied

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Place · 10/01/2007 21:56

Not sure what the problem is here - not exactly clear to me sorry . As I read it baby has perfectly normal sugars - it can go down to 2.2 normally and some hospitals 'allow' 1.8 under supervision.

Babies need to be kept warm and fed. Holding the baby almost constantly skin to skin (and not skin to nighty, or babygrow to skin) means that the baby uses up less of his energy stores (i.e calories - read sugar!), because mum is providing the warmth. He also has to use less energy in breathing , as baby is so close to mums breath that then both breathing out co2 stimulates the baby to breath more easily.

Baby of course needs to be fed - that doesn't mean formula unless there is a problem with mum and milk!

Mum should have been provided with the information and equipment (instructions on hand expressing or pump) and be expressing 6-8 times a day, and THAT milk given to her baby by syringe, tube on breast, tube on finger, supplementer, cup or bottle. In the first day babies need feeding about 4 times, day 2 5 times, day 3 6 times or more in all these cases, but these are the suggested minimums. Hypoglyceamia is caused by something....so unless he is 'high risk' i.e mum has diabetes, baby was kept away from mum or got cold etc.etc. there are a lot of good ABM counsellors in Taunton area (even an ex nicef trainer!) try giving them a call on 0870 401 7711

Place · 10/01/2007 21:59

ooops, should have added that diabetes in mum - isn't a sign that there will be a problem only that it 'might' need to be monitored for a little while to make sure everything is fine - and NOT an excuse to feed formula. first feeds of colostrum/milk are generally about 7mls - just a bit more than a teaspoon. If mum was diabetic during pregnancy, she should have been advised to express during pregnancy.

Get her pumpin I say - then she can say 'GIVE MY MILK'

hoxtonchick · 10/01/2007 22:01

hello overrun, do you know how your sil is doing? i have diabetes & have succesfully bfed both my children. both had formula top ups on their first day, given via cup so as to avoid nipple confusion. i was very definite about wanting to breastfeed, & made sure i put them to the breast very often & certainly before each formula feed.

hope everything goes ok. hth.

Paddlechick666 · 10/01/2007 22:13

haven't read teh whole thread so apologies if i am repeating.

personal experience was that i had gestational diabetes, dd was born at 35+6 after going into labour spontaneously.

delivery was complicated and i was on a sliding scale - insulin in 1 arm, glucose in the other.

failed ventouse and emergency c-section.

dd was 8lb 14oz and i put her to the breast asap skin to skin.

midwives insisted she have formula then breast top up.

11 hours after birth dd's blood sugars went down to 1.8 and she was taken to scbu overnight.

they put a feeding tube in her nose and promised to get me for the 2am feed.

they didn't. my buzzer didn't work and at 4am they finally brought another woman on the ward and they absolutely promised to get me at 5am for the next feed.

they didn't - or rather they came but said i was sleeping.

in scbu they fed her with a bottle so no need for the nasal tube.

i was finally taken upstairs a bit later on and put dd to the breast.

she latched fine and seemed to be doing okay. they agreed to bf then ff top ups.

in the next few days dd came more and more easily to the bottle and less easily to the breast.

when i got home it took 10 days and a lot of support from bf midwife counsellor to get dd off the ff entirely.

afterwards i found that i was within my rights to refuse all formula and persevere with bf but i didn't know this at the time.

dd is now 14 months and still bf and thriving. i really wish she'd never had formula or at least that if she had it would've been my informed choice.

but, you just never know how things are going to turn out. i am much more angry (still) at the lack of post-delivery support and the seeming lack of concern or care in getting me to my baby thru the night.

that was the most distressing part altho the work involved on weaning off formula was pretty hard going too.

hope your sil and newborn are doing well and things work out to your sil's satisfaction.

sorry this turned out long!

Overrun · 11/01/2007 09:49

thanks for all your responses, Paddlechick, thats a sad story, but so common
I plan to ring my brother soon, and pass information to them.
My Mum was very unclear about the feeding, so am a bit in the dark, as to how much ff the baby has had, so I will pass on all that I learned. also the number so thanks for that

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Overrun · 11/01/2007 11:56

Just to update people. The babys blood sugars are now fine, at over 5. My sil is still struggling to bf her dd, don't really know why, my brother not sure, midwifes are giving her support.
I have rung her to give her the bf counselers number, but unsurprisingly she is not answering. Must be busy looking after her newborn

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MarsLady · 11/01/2007 15:43

Thanks for the update. Glad you got some good advice and a number to pass on.

BBWBabeLisa · 11/01/2007 19:30

Paddlechick - how did you find out you were within your rights to refuse all formula? I'm diabetic, BF DD failed for a number of reasons including being pushed into giving formula first few days to raise blood sugar. Just been asking on another thread what right I have to refuse formula next time round, would be interested to know if it's written down anywhere?

1973magpie · 11/01/2007 20:39

Hi, I'm glad that your sil is getting on better, and that you have had the advice you needed. Hope all goes well now

Can I be cheeky and hijack the thread briefly?

Place would you be able to tell me where you got the hypoglycaemia 'normal' results from please? (I am currently researching this as I am 31 weeks and have gestational diabetes) Thanks