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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

How quickly can I cut out the formula top-ups?

23 replies

ib · 07/01/2007 15:34

My DS is 17 days old and has been bf with formula top-ups for the past 6 days. Prior to this he became dehydrated and was losing lots of weight. He has now regained his birth weight, and I think my milk supply is increasing, although I still don't seem to be able to satisfy him in the evening.

I feed him all day every day, and once at night at around 2am, but then I can't get him to feed again from the breast until around 8am. He will take a little bit from the bottle at around 4am.

I'm not in the UK and feel totally stranded with no bf support whatsoever. The paediatrician I took him to when he was dehydrated said that if I really didn't want to give formula then I should give water or a herbal tea . We decided to give him formula top-ups until he had regained his birth weight, but now are worried about cutting it out too soon and have him lose weight again...

OP posts:

AitchTwoOhOhSeven · 07/01/2007 15:40

hope someone comes along soon, i know how stressy it is. you sound like you're doing well, and you'll get lots of support here.

NotQuiteCockney · 07/01/2007 15:43

I probably can't answer all your questions, but I can ask more questions about him.

Is he just now back at his birth weight?

How much formula does he take at 4am? Does he have any other formula throughout the day? Do you always offer breast first, then formula? Are you pumping to increase your supply?

Does he have any latch issues (does feeding hurt? are you nipples sore?)? How was his birth? Is he generally healthy?

(Herbal tea is a normal option for babies in some countries, by the way, I don't see anything particularly wrong with it, I guess, but of course at his age he needs breastmilk or formula.)

Are you sleeping with him? Is it an option?

When you say you can't get him to feed from the breast, what do you mean? He won't latch? He won't suck? Does he get upset?

How often does he feed during the day?

NotQuiteCockney · 07/01/2007 15:45

Those are questions that I am pretty sure that the very knowledgeable bf people on here will want the answers to, by the way. Not just questions I'm asking for fun.

I'm sorry to hear you're having a hard time - congratulations on the birth of your son.

If you can say what country you're in, some people may be able to recommend bf support there.

Original poster

ib · 07/01/2007 16:48

yes, he is only just back at his birth weight.

He only takes a bit of formula at 4am, about 40 ml.

He does sleep with us.

I do always offer first breast, then formula, the most formula he has taken (on the first day) was 80ml, usually he only takes 30-40ml, in the evening 50 ml or so.

He has had a lot of latch issues (he is teething already, weird though that may sound) but I can usually get him to latch on. At night he just falls asleep at the breast if I do get him to latch on at all, at most he nibbles a little bit first but doesn't seem to swallow at all.

these last few days he seems to be feeding pretty much every hour during the day, which is why I am encouraged, as the first week he only would feed every 4-5 hours, and that if prompted.

Hope this answers the questions...thanks for the support

OP posts:

Original poster

ib · 07/01/2007 17:06

Oh, sorry, missed out a couple. His birth was great, a home water birth, which is not approved of around here so health professionals seem to enjoy having a go at me for failing at breastfeeding...but still not regret it as it was a wonderful experience.

He does seem quite healthy since we started topping up with formula, prior to that he was very yellow and not pooing at all, which is why we took him to see the paediatrician.

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kiskidee · 07/01/2007 17:35

where are you ib? it will help to know so that you can find a counsellor for one to one support/chat.

the thing with reducing formula topups is to know how much top ups you are giving, quantity and frequency and then to reduce the top ups over time.

i don't know enough about this issue but imagine these are some of the things a counsellor needs to know.

hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pick up your thread soon.

mears · 07/01/2007 17:47

ib - why do you think he is teething - very unlikely at 17 days?

Since he doesn't seem to be having very much formula at all really, I would go cold turkey and just feed him from the breast only. If he seems to want more then put him back on. It doesn't sound as though he really needs it any more. You may find that you are constantly feeding in the evening but that is totally normal and known as 'cluster feeds'. The more the baby feeds, the more milk you make.
When you feed him at night, strip him down to his nappy and have him 'skin-to-skin next to you. That often stimulated a baby to feed more effectively and can be done during the day too. Babies will often suck from a bottle even if they have had enough from the breast. It is because it is something different rather than them being still hungry. A bit like when you are offered a pudding after being stuffed full with the main course. You usually manage to eat it

Original poster

ib · 07/01/2007 18:03

I'm in southern france.

I think he's teething as you can see two tiny white lines on his lower gum - also it feels sharp there when he latches on. Several people have looked at it and agree that it looks like his lower teeth are coming out. He also seems to try to gnaw on things all the time.

OP posts:

foundintranslation · 07/01/2007 18:05

I agree with mears - if he's having no trouble latching etc., I would just leave the top-ups. They do interfere with demand and therefore supply.

The herbal tea thing sounds a bit like Germany - is that where you are? I'm there and we were put under a lot of pressure to top up in hospital, leading to almost four weeks of breast refusal and struggles. We managed to turn it round and after 4 weeks ds was exclusively bf.

nothercules · 07/01/2007 18:05

ib - dd had the same as a few weeks old baby. I was convinced they were teeth and asked a dentist during my sons check up to look at them. She said they werent teeth (cant remember what she said it was) and her teeth didnt come through until much much later - average time.

nothercules · 07/01/2007 18:05

It might feel sharp as it is hard gum there iykwim.

foundintranslation · 07/01/2007 18:06

x posts. Maybe the tea thing is a European one then. Every baby over the age of about 1 week here seems to be regularly given various kinds of herbal teas. We've never done it (ds gets bm, water, very occasionally apple juice) and are considered a bit odd, I think

mears · 07/01/2007 18:07

ib - the 2 tiny white lines on the gum are normal. The sharpness you feel when he latches would make me think that he isn't latching as well as he could causing sharp discomfort. Will find some useful video clips for you.

mears · 07/01/2007 18:09

have a look here and scroll down to the bottom of the page

Original poster

ib · 07/01/2007 18:27

I hope you are all right - was really dreading a whole bunch of teeth coming up to make bf even more difficult.

The latch looks like the ones in the videos (have spent hours on Jack Newman's website trying to figure the whole bf thing out) and my nipples have now healed up so I assumed latch was OK (initially my nipples were cracked and bleeding) but still does hurt a lot when he comes on (gets better after a while)

OP posts:

mears · 07/01/2007 18:42

Have you tried changing positions at feeds? Sometimes there can be a tender bit that is always assaulted at feeds because the position is the same. It can be tender as the baby latches on but if the pain has not gone by the time you count to ten (not too quickly) I would suggest the positioning and attachment is not quite right. Make sure that he is definitely 'tummt-to-mummy and head tilted slightly upwards so that you can see his eyes. He needs to take in more of the underside of the areola. Even the smallest of adjustments can make all the difference.

LadyClaret · 07/01/2007 18:45

Hi. I have a six week old baby who weighs over 11 lbs. I was hoping that someone could give me some advice before the pain is too much and I give up bf. I am experiencing deep hot pain in my breast during and after feeding. The pain is linked to M's jaw on my breast. He has a very strong suck. It is worse in one breast which has beign lumps. The pain radiates across my breast into my armpit and sometimes into my back. M< has also become agitated on this breast- pulling off and crying. I have then put him on the other breast and he calms down. I have similar pain in the other breast but not as severe. The HV diag over the phone that is was thrusy and org some cream for us both. I was wondering if anyone had similar problems or could give some advice. He was very good at latching on from the start and puts on around 8oz a week. I have tried expressing but with not much success.

mears · 07/01/2007 18:47

Does sound like thrush pain TBH. Try the treatment and see how it goes - it should inmprove. Will post a link for you.

mears · 07/01/2007 18:48

thrush and breastfeeding

LadyClaret · 07/01/2007 18:51

Thanks. M has also decided to demand even more feeding. A NCT bfc suggested the breast feeding network- an I have down loaded the leaflet- but it said pain after feeding. I get it during feeding- only when he is biting down

AitchTwoOhOhSeven · 07/01/2007 19:54

dd had such bright white lines on her lower gum that the first question i asked the midwife was not 'is everything okay?' but 'are they teeth?'
her teeth came through at about 6 months, all perfectly normal.

Twinklemegan · 07/01/2007 23:39

LadyClaret - an NCT BFC said I probably had thrush and I had severe pain very like what you describe. I didn't really get much pain after the feed, but during it was agonising. This only developed when DS was about 3 months - before that I'd had terrible pain but it was different and related to my letdown I think. That had just settled when the thrush started. You're lucky - I had to see the dr and he said he didn't believe in thrush causing b/f problems. He asked all his colleagues and they didn't either! But he finally agreed to prescribe Daktarin cream and it cleared it up.

Original poster

ib · 08/01/2007 09:31

Thanks for the advice. Will try jiggling him around a bit to see if this helps.

OP posts:

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