Help/advice needed, drastically reduced milk supply, long and poss TMI sorry

[bewilderbeast]

Help. Have been having trouble satisfying DS since before xmas day. Ds is now 11 weeks old and at his 8 week check his weight gain had reduced to the point where the doc was worried even though he had gained weight. DS was 6 weeks premature and his weight has always been a concern with the docs - I had posted on another BF thread about them pushing formula. I am an almost full time pumper with one or two full breastfeeds or snacks a day. Even pumping I am producing much less each time - and I mean about 60- 80 mls less. Yesterday I had to give him a bottle of formula as he was screaming the house down and there was no more milk either when I put him to the breast or with frequent expressing. He was lethargic and appeared a little unwell but perked up immediately after the bottle. It gave him chronic painful wind later though. Today I had to give him one formula top up to make up a full feed. I really did not want to do this, neither did my partner and we are unhappy about it. I have been scouring my books for advice and assistance and came across a section about inadequate milk supply which stated that one indicator of reduced supply is the return of periods before baby is 3 months old because it indicates a change in the level of hormones in the body. I got my period when DS was exactly 6 weeks old and have it again now. Could this explain my reduced supply? Is there anything else I can do other than frequent pumping/feeding to increase my supply as currently this does not seem to be having any effect. Does the return of the dreaded monthly cycle mean that I will not be able to fully breast feed DS. Am feeling very down.

where do you get brewers yeast tablets?

hi, well done for doing this for so long. From what i am aware from various literature lots of pumping can decrease supply as it is not the same stimulation to the breast as baby suckling. will DS feed led down in bed, maybe when sleepy. i would go along with the skin to skin contact, rest and relaxation and trying to get him to feed as often as you can if he will. also it is prime time for a growth spurt too

i would also go with the mothers milk tea. i live in germany and there is a tea here that is the same and i use it and have lots of milk, also a friend of mine was pumping from one side as it was sore and feeding from the other and started drinking this tea and said her supply definately increased. you can buy it from the internet. hth

will look for the tea. willing to try anything at the moment I know that stressing about it won't help but I can't help being upset and worried and frankly a little bit annoyed with mother nature (and myself).

bewilderbeast - at our hospital we give mothers with diminishing supply Domperidone 10mg three times a day for 10 days. If you 'google' Domperidone you will get other information as some places use higher doses. We have found though that this dose is effective. The trade name for it is Motilium and you can actually buy it over the counter. It is used to ease abdominal bloating but a side effect is that it increases prolactin levels which increases milk production. It can be used where milk supply is not responding to 3 hourly expression ie at least 8 times a day.
Before expressing with a pump you should massage your breasts and hand express to get the milk to flow. Hand expression stimulated milk production more than a pump. The baby is the best stimulator of all. Encourage as much skin-to-skin contact as you can. Try breastfeeding in the bath - that often is successful. Try offering the breast when he is a bit s;eepy - don't wait until he is starving hungry. Perhaps give some milk to take the edge of his hunger then breastfeed. You definitely need support from a bresatfeeding counsellor as it will not be plain sailing. With the right support it is achievable. Good luck.

thanks mears off to bed with baby for a good feed (hopefully)

link{http://www.breastfeeding.com/helpme.html\have a look at this site}

have a look here

hi bewilderbeast,saw your post on the oct babies thread and posted advice re colic as was in same boat. am now in same position with feeding. went to get lo weighed on thursday and she'd dropped from 75th to 9th centile. had already started to notice dwindling milk supply and lack of wet nappies plus she was crying for food after i had nothing left. have been told to feed her on demand plus every 3 hours and to top up with formula.
i feel rubbish about it too but she's obviously so hungry don't feel have much choice. am drinking that tea, downing fenugreek tablets and trying to rest as much as possible but really struggling. people who don't have kids don't seem to understand either.
it must be really worrying for you after the prem baby unit experience as well. sounds like you're doing brilliantly. expressing is really hard work.

marthahm I can totally sympathise it feels crap I missed ds's weigh in last week as the HV was too busy I am just hopeing that when she comes next week he has gained some weight although I doubt that it will be as much as they want him too. Feeding DS in bed has taken 2 hours, he is still hungry I am empty and covered in scratches from my face to my stomach, it started well and calmly and I was full of hope and joy but half way through he lost his temper and now I look like I've had a fight with a bramble bush

When he is struggling when feeding have you tried swaddling him? Skin-to-skin is good for babies needing encouragement to feed, but for those who are battling it might be worth swaddling in a shawl. I personally always wrapped my babies up for the second side to try and and get them to settle.

marthahm - it is not unusual for babies to drop the centiles as they get older. Routine weighing of babies is not helpful at all. If baby is alert, feeding well, peeing and pooing I would stop getting regular weights done.

Would also say that you need to feed more often that every 3 hours if she is still hungry. Best not to clock watch at all. If she is looking to be fed, feed her no matter when she was last fed.

mears, that website is great thanks. I have tried to swaddle him, in the first few weeks we had him home it helped him to sleep but if swaddled whilst feeding it seems to make him more irritable he wants his arms out. Likewise scratchmits or even tie on gloves make him cross and he fights until he has got them off. Is there a reason that they are less settled for the second side?

bwb have you tried any of the helplines? a lovely woman from bf network visited me three times - all would have been lost without her help, despite loads of mn support.

in my case (following cs) ds didn't latch for 5 days and then we had terrible positioning problems, agonising feeds. my supply suffered, he lost weight. you can imagine i am sure. i think it was about 10 weeks he got really thin, it did all turn out fine he is 20m now.

i tried domperidone too (bought it online). it is quite expensive, think it probably helped a bit, but it can only be a short term help, as you need supply to keep up with demand and it will only boost it, not increase.

I have problems talking to people in person on the phone, hence turning to the lovely mumsnetters. Am getting in a panic just thinking about having to speak to someone. I know they are nice and helpful and they understand etc but my anxiety levels are sky high and I need to work up to it.

oh i know just what you mean. it is all so personal and raw. there was a breastfeeding cafe not far away but i couldn't face going. the first number i rang connected me with someone in northern scotland (i am in london) so there was no chance of her being able to visit. that gave me confidence to ring someone else

Bewilderbeast I take my hat off to you. Such a hero. No special advice, every one else has said it all. Just hang on in there, and you will reap the benefits in future when it all becomes easy.

Sometimes flow of milk on second side can be too fast for some babies. You could always try winding him then putting him back on the same side. Only thing is, if you want to increase milk supply it is best to feed from both breasts.

bewilderbeast do you think he might have reflux. my lo does the pulling off and scrabbling thing. she has reflux and has been much calmer feeding since gave her anti reflux medication. i find feeding in bed a real fight with lo. we never manage it properly and she really struggles. is v exhausting. i do think the fenugreek might be working though.
mears-wasn't doing routine weighing because didn't want to start feeling anxious. went before xmas when started to worry and went 3 weeks later because things were not looking so good-1 in 3 nappies were dry and she seemed v. light and hungry. am feeding every 3 hours plus whenever she seems hungry.

BWB - I'd gathered you'd had a really bad time in the beginning but that sounds dreadful. It makes my own b/f problems pale into insignificance. I think it's amazing you're still going at 11 weeks - my DS was getting a lot of formula by then.

I completely sympathise about him fighting you. In the first few weeks it used to take both DH and I to hold DS, swaddle him and then get him on the breast without him fighting his way out. It was a complete nightmare.

Hang in there - you sound amazingly determined. As someone else has said - you are so one of those women you referred to. I wasn't, but I wish I had been.

mears-do you think it is worth getting up in the night to express if dd manages to sleep through?

sorry for delay, brewers yeast tablets in any health food shop

marthahm - when there are problems with supply I think it is worth feeding during the night as it is extra stimulation. Babies often feed more efficiently at night as well and that boosts supply. Breast feeding is so much more effective than expressing. If baby can't be persuaded to feed then expressing is next best thing.

Hi...firstly I read that the weight charts were based on the growth of babies fed on powdered cows milk( higher fat content) and that breast fed babies don't necessarily get as heavy.
I also read Fennel tea can stimulate milk supply.
I drank plenty of fluids and ate healthy, no black tea or coffee, rested as much as possible, tried not to get too stressed or anxious.
My breasts were very big in the early days, but decreased in size as time went on...the milk adapts to the changing needs of the baby and I found I naturally produced less quantity.
Have you researched La leche?
I am so impressed you have come this far...you have done your son and yourself proud.

hi bewilderbeast-have been to breast feeding counsellor at hospital where had lo. she gave me a 48 hour plan to up the milk supply.here it is if it's any use- feed on demand and don't go more than 3 hours without feeding lo. express between feeds using a double pump-more efficient and faster. eat loads of carbs (don't go more than 3 hours without food) and drink at least 2 litres water per day. keep switching lo from 1 breast to the other when have v little milk left at end of feed. eat fennel, halva (sesame seed snack), drink guinness, mother aid tea. don't leave the house for 48 hours, just stay in pj's and veg as much as poss with lo. the more contact with lo the better.
obviously you've already heard lots of this and you have the problem that your lo is fighting the breast feeding which makes it way harder. anyway, just thought i'd let you know in case it helps at all. i've followed it and seems to be helping a bit fingers crossed.