Am I making DS ill by breastfeeding? No idea what I'm doing now

[Alex83]

Hi

I've had a really tough 48 hours and am feeling so upset and tearful and not sure what to do now.

DS is 8 days old and I'd thought breastfeeding was going well- he seems to feed well (10-12 times every 24 hours), is having lots of wet and dirty nappies (yellowy brown poo) seems satisfied and full after feeds.

When he was weighed a few days ago they said he'd gone down from 8lb 14oz to 8lb (10% loss) but the midwife didn't seem urgently concerned at that stage.

Then yesterday we were admitted to hospital so he could have treatment for jaundice and the doctors there said he probably wasn't eating enough and I felt really pressurised to top up with formula so they could see what he was getting, which he hated and it made him be sick. So I tried expressing for him and was only getting 20-25ml each side which I know isn't enough for him. I've started giving him 10 minutes on each side at each feed today so at least he's getting both quantities but now his poo has become dark green this evening. I have no idea what I'm doing!

I'm now so upset, am I making DS ill by breastfeeding him and just not making enough milk? Should I start topping up with formula or stop breastfeeding altogether? It's really knocked my confidence, he seemed to be doing so well and I thought we were doing alright. Any advice would be great as I feel really lost.

I know that weighing can be very stressful (I found it mortifying in ds's first couple of weeks)but very young babies do need to be weighed until they are gaining weight. Bf babies are not "compared" to ff babies, it's a myth that the centile charts are based on ff babies.

For what it's worth op, it sounds like you're doing well and hopefully your baby will have gained some weight

So DS has had his weigh in and he's the same as 2 days ago so hasn't gained but hasn't lost any. He's up 1oz from his lowest point last Saturday. I'm going to feed feed feed today and hopefully he'll be up tomorrow.

The HV also gave me some information of a local BF drop in cafe thing which looks good and I might try to get to when I'm a bit more mobile- it's quite a walk and I can't drive after my CS.

Thanks nicky I will keep getting DS weighed as I really want to make sure he's doing ok.

I almost had BF ruined for me by the midwife. My DD lost 12% of her body weight so the midwife on day 3 told me I wasn't making enough milk and to top up to 90ml per feed in formula (on a 6.5lb baby!). We then had to go back the next day for weighing as the midwife wanted the baby to put on 60g by then or else we were "being sent to hospital". We ended up doing some top ups (nowhere near the amount suggested) and then we rapidly reduced the amount and were off top ups within 2 weeks. The worst thing was it totally destroyed my confidence in BF and I was permanently worried I wasn't producing enough. Had some friendly BF support that helped and finally I just decided to have faith in myself. We did very regular weighings to make sure all was on track - but we weren't going to make any changes on 1 measurement - babies don't gain in nice straight lines necessarily. It took me about 8 weeks to feel comfortable with BF (but had v difficult baby with severe colic from day 3). We're now at 12 weeks and doing fine . I've never been able to express more than 20ml

Weighing a baby so regularly won't help your confidence so once the midwife and health visitor have done their weigh ins try not to focus on that - you will see he is putting on weight. Just like adults if you weigh yourself everyday or every few days you won't see a big difference
A friend who is a health visitor says she always advises mums not to weigh too regularly u less there is a concern as it creates more pressure and stress
Sound alike your doing great op

He hasn't lost any more - that is the main thing. I would persevere with breastfeeding unless he was losing weight. You are doing brilliantly and keeping him alive. That is a serious achievement in the early days.

It is such a tricky time. I determinedly fed all three of mine and was one of those who engaged in all sorts of strange shenanigans to make it work (including pumping colostrum from 32 weeks to build up a supply for dc3 which only just about kept the wolves from the door, with hospital grade pumping and SNS feeding and motilium and all sorts).

I was so determined and years on, I'm not really sure now if I would do it the same, if it was worth it or not - some of it definitely wasn't. I will never forget the weighings, though. They can become so obsessive and it's important not to make them the be all and end all, but on the other hand, I avoided them entirely with my second (with HV approval) and he ended up quite poorly at 20 weeks having not gained an oz since 11 weeks. I suffered huge guilt about that, but I was doing what I thought was best at the time and he came through it.

Whatever you do or whatever happens, try to be really kind and soothing to yourself at this time. It can feel so bewildering and whatever happens, it's not your fault that it hasn't all just worked like a dream for you. You are doing so well and this will soon be a distant memory, whatever happens next. These things happen and there is huge stress in the reality slap that comes with realising that feeding isn't going swimmingly, and feeling it should be different - but it all flies by faster than you can imagine at this early stage. Take good care of yourself - your baby needs you to be able to nuzzle and cuddle and gaze at and listen to your sing song voice every bit as much as your breastmilk.

Alex83 - I feel I could have written your post as I'm in a similar situation. I had DS2 by ELCS at 39 wks and it was a big shock that his birth weight was only 5lb 5. At no point had anyone picked up that I might be having an underweight baby. So right from the get go, the pressure was on to get his weight up and his blood sugar up. I breastfed DS1 for 22 months so at least I had a degree of confidence about what I was doing. Initially, I was expressing into a 1ml syringe as DS2 was too small to latch on effectively and the midwives at the hospital convinced me that topping him up with a cup of formula was a good idea, but as soon as my milk was more established, I was off and running...until the weigh ins at home started. He lost 7% of his birth weight but at that stage, the midwife said it was normal to lose weight in the early days although they were concerned about the rate of the weight loss. At the next weigh in, he regained his birth weight but then remained static for the next few weight ins (literally, days apart, so probably too closely spaced). Because he failed to gain (note that he didn't LOSE weight!) we were referred to the paediatric assessment unit who ran all kinds of obs and tests and concluded that he was just being slow to regain his birth weight. The BF counsellor was great and gave me lots of ideas about switch nursing, breast compression etc.. and said I didn't need to use formula if I didn't want to (and I didn't).

Fast forward today and he gained weight at his weigh in (yay!) but the health visitor completely glossed over that , furrowed her brow and said 'I need to measure his head'. She then went on to say that he hadn't gained enough weight in her view and she felt he was growing disproportionately ie. his head is growing at a faster rate than his body (??) and then started throwing all kinds of things around including the lack of brain development etc.. If he was my first baby, I'd have been in tears but instead I pushed back. He's pooing and weeing fine, feeds well through the day, although I'll admit that he has gone six hours at night without a feed because he is too tired to wake up. I've stopped that now by setting my alarm to wake him up for feeds. She had a go at me for 'charging around' (I take my son to nursery on the buggy board and yes, I walk at a reasonable speed) but the rest of the day I sit on my arse watching stuff on iPlayer while I feed. I also made the point that light exercise is very important to my recovery. I challenged her on using formula which isn't any more nutritional than breast milk but she just kept saying that he needs more calories. I feel like I've been made to give in and give him formula top ups, although I'm going to try expressing and giving that as a top up instead. A lot of what she said was contradictory but by far the worst comment was when I got up to leave and she looked at DS2 and said 'Well at least I'm worried about you'. I was so taken aback, I didn't say anything, but I'll pull her up on it when I see her next week. When I told DH, he said 'she isn't welcome in our house any more'. She also called our dog fat (he isn't) when she first visited our home so you can see what kind of person we're dealing with here! She said that if he hasn't gained more weight at a rate she's happy with by Monday that she wants us to spend another day at the paediatric unit. I said I'd want a clear rationale for that and an outline of what they would do differently over and above what they've already done (blood tests, urine tests, jaundice etc.., all of which has been done). She then said that if he could ill, it would be her fault for not dealing with it and yet repeatedly kept saying 'You're doing all I've asked of you'. WTF?

I totally agree with other posters that there's too much pressure on weigh ins and far too much pressure to use formula. If he was losing weight, that would be different.

I could never express in any kind of quantity but exclusively bf all 4 of my DC to 6 months and didn't stop feeding til they were over 12 months.

The amount you can express bears no relationship to the amount baby can get out of you!

You sound like you are doing all the right things, hang in there and trust your instincts! As for no weight gained, scales vary... Unless exact same calibrated scales! And at this age, just having done a big poo moments before may make all the difference!

My first Bf experience was similar to yours and out of stubborness I made it to 4/5 months. But I think expressing and topping up with formula really messed up my bodies production. My mum hadn't bf I hadn't yet made any "mum" friends toget support from. I was nervous the whole time that DS wasn't getting enough.

2nd time round I spent a lot of my pregnancy lurking in the Feeding forum on here and visiting www.kellymom.com (which I found through mn) it's not the easiest site to navigate but it is EVIDENCE based and I found it really useful. Once baby and I were home , our first trip out was to local BF support/cafe, where they tweaked DS latch. They were fantastic and I visited weekly. We made it to 9months!

I know it's a real worry but try to ltrust your instincts.

mrslebon that sounds so incredibly tough, what awful behaviour by that HV. I'm very lucky that DS was a massive 8lbs 14ozs at birth so had a bit of a head start and that seems to make them slightly less worried then they otherwise might be I suppose. I hope your DS is doing really well now, you're right to keep questioning them, you're his mother after all.

Thank you for all the replies. I'm not so tied to the idea of BF that I'll keep going if he loses weight again, I think I'll give it another weigh in or so and then start mixed feeding with some formula. I really don't think I can cope with the stress if he doesn't gain weight soon, I just want to enjoy my baby! I'm just going to relax, try my best and try and keep everything in perspective.

Mrslebon that is appalling and I'd be making a complaint about her unhelpful approach and lack of awareness of potential risk factors for PND. If an HCP had made those kind of comments to be in the early weeks with my firstborn it would have tipped me over the edge.

It sounds like today went well op. Well done this really is the hard yard. I think your plan of feed feed feed is an excellent one and I'm sure you and your baby will do very well on it! I know pp have said that weighing babies doesn't matter etc and I agree that it's only one indicator of how bf feeding is going but it is important that young babies start to gain weight. Frequent wet and dirty nappies, coming off the breast themselves satisfied and having periods of alertness are other idicators. Even if your baby is slow to gain weight it absolutely does not have to be the end of bf, if your baby needs more milk you have it right there in your breast, it doesn't have to mean f.

Good news that he isn't losing weight. Idiot think such regular weighs will help your state of mind, it really can take a bf baby longer toeegain his birth loss. Fx for a small gain.

It's great he's now not losing weight. Can I ask if you've had any breastfeeding support yet?

As this could be a really simple fix something that your not aware of that could improve things. He pooing and weeing well I take it. Lots of wet nappies, if feeding pain free for you?

Are you feeding both sides at each feed? Sounds like he's feeding often enough which is good. And as lots of people have pointed out expessing is no indication of supply.

Another thing with them giving formula and him being sick is that's very comane they often try to give them to much in one go. They are then just stick my friend who volunteers in the hospital days she sees this a lot. They can't take large volumes of milk when they are this little.

Firstly I think you are doing amazingly and I'm angry on your behalf for the pressure you've been put under.

Are his nappies still green? As our baby's nappies stayed green due to reflux, and once we treated that the nappies turned yellow and his weight gain sped up (just gave infant Gaviscon alongside breast milk initially).

MigGril no I haven't really had any BF support except the midwife saying his latch looked good when she was here. To be honest i wasn't really planning on BF but he did so well in the hospital, latched straight on in the recovery room so I thought I'd give it a go.

He's doing loads of good wees and poos (back to mustard colour again now).

It's very painful when he first starts sucking but that only lasts about 5 seconds now (has been getting shorter and shorter time since last week when it lasted about 30 seconds) and then it's pain free for the rest of the feed. I'm not sure if this is normal, the midwife said it was, it's kind of a hot stabbing, burning pain and quite intense.

Yes he's taking both sides at most of his feeds now.

It did seem quite a large volume, they said 70ml every 3 hours, though he was more used to feeding every 2 hours and i suppose smaller volumes but more frequently.

That short pain you're experiencing is just the 'let down' as you start to feed. I get it too but it's shortlived. You'll often find that the other nipple will start to produce milk as you are letting down on the other side. Great that you're not experiencing any pain during the feed - that's brilliant! Keep it up. And fab that the poos are back to mustard colour. Same here so I'm relieved about that.

It sounds like you're doing brilliantly and you've been given some great advice above. I've been breastfeeding my dd for 16 months and went through the same worry about weight loss and not producing enough milk. I think it's important to mention that it's a supply/demand relationship so the more you feed the more you produce. It makes me cross when formula top ups are recommended too soon as as soon as you start with that your body won't produce enough milk as it will think the demand has gone down. A self fulfilling prophecy. Constantly feeding as you are and skin to skin are the best thing. Also keep hydrated and make sure you're eating properly (sorry if that sounds patronising). Don't worry about how much you express-I've never been able to express more than a dribble but my dd is on the 91st percentile and still survives mostly on breastmilk so she must be taking plenty from me!

DS has gained 2ozs and is now 8lb 3oz, I'm so relieved! They did weigh him with a nappy on this time rather than no nappy last time so probably only gained 1lb really but I'm still really pleased after all the stress and worry!

Thanks for the advise regarding let-down mrslebon good to know it's normal.

Thanks friendlyghost for the advise, I'm trying to keep an eye on eating enough- I can tend to skip meals if I'm not careful.

That's great news Alex83.
Sounds like things are going really well,I bet you will see a nice steady gain now over the next few weeks.

I found it helped having snacks around really helped,things like fresh fruit & yogurt,crumpets,humous,crackers etc.
It meant I could grab breakfast or a snack without having to prepare to much when busy. I also kept water bottles in the fridge,easy to get with one hand before a feed.

Woohoo! Well done to both of you... Keep going!

Calm calm calm! The green poo is the formula leaving. Breast babies have yellowy poo. The more you attach him to the breast the more you'll produce - expressing almost 1oz is fantastic at this stage! I could only express a drop or two and now get at least 6oz a day (DD is 9 weeks). You'll know if he's not quite getting enough and then you can top up with formula if needed but it sounds like you're doing a fantastic job!

Yay! Well done OP! Hope you feel more confident now. You are doing great for your DS. And your body is doing amazing things to nourish him.

Thank you everyone for all the advise, support and good wishes!