3wk old breastfed baby losing weight...

[saralou100]

ok, ds is now just over 3 weeks and is bf. i had an awful birth which ended in a c-section and now the wound is infected. i'm on my 2nd course of anti-biotics for this. my problem is that ds is now losing weight, even though he seems to have been feeding well.. he was feeding every 1 1/2 - 2 hours during the day and only waking once in the night, the last few days he wants to feed even when he's jst finished.. i did put this down to a growth spurt, but it can't have been if he's losing weight.. not really sure what to do now? any ideas ladies? i tied topping him up with formula last night, but he wasn't keen... could it be the antibiotics doing this?

tia xx

Daisymlaisy, I have to say I'm really glad that I didn't read your comments about babies who regularly need feeding more than 2 hourly 'usually' having a problem, as it would really have knocked my confidence. My fourth baby regularly fed every 1-1 1/2 hours during the day (and still would given the chance but at 15 months I can distract him more easily) Some babies are just like this and like to feed often! I can promise you there was no attachment problem as shown by the soggy, dripping, leaking nappies I had to change about 10 times a day

Tik Tok I have to say in your comments I'm reading it like you are just a little put out that there is another professional on the block, and your not liking it. Sorry if I have read this wrong, however I am professionally trained with the well respected Unicef and therefore follow their ethos and code of practice, I do not take kindly to you insinuating that I am lying, Why are you doing this? I have read through several threads where you feature and I don't agree with all you say and in one it says you are not a professional, maybe you have trained since then.

In answer to the feeding more regualarly than 2 hours after the age of 3 weekss, It really should not be needed and would be exhausting and in many cases impossible for a mother of possibly more siblings to be able to do this, so if I was assigned a client with this problem after anything medical had been ruled out, I would explain to the mother that it is mostly likely tiredness rather than hunger as mothers who have established their supply and have a healthy baby and feed more often than 2 hours are generally doing it because they choose to feed for comfort to the baby ( maybe to aid sleep) rather than the babies hunger, I admit it is hard for mothers to admit they do this, although I see no wrong in it, each to their own, Mothers who do this will say that their baby demanded it.

What I have wrote is not to be taken at face value, obviously I'm talking about a mother who has a good milk supply and attachment etc.

There are of course times when the 2 hour feed is not appropriate, during growth spurts, or when a mother has been separated from her baby very early on and very regular feeding is needed.

Happy New Year and sorry Saralou for crashing you thread, to explain myself to Tik Tok

Daisymistletoe, I did not say that if you are feeding your baby more reguarly than 2 hours that your baby HAS a problem, I said there would usually be a poor attachment problem or something else and by that I meant a number of things ie mother feeding to every hour/hour and half to comfort baby to sleep rather than meet hunger needs, or mother has poor milk supply, tongue tie in the baby the list goes on and on. With help and support from a professional if the mother has established a good milk supply 2/3 hourly feeds should be maintainable.

Sarahlou, sorry to contradict what you have been told,however I would advice against not using a dummy as it is though that teats and dummies may interfere with a baby's response to the breast, particularly if he has not yet mastered the skill of good attachment.

Dummies are associated with a shorter duration of breastfeeding , which may be because they have the additional effect of masking a baby's feeding cues, resulting in infrequent feeding.

So I would get advice on your attachment asap, and keep offering that breast!

Where do you live Sarahlou?

daisymlaisy, why are you attacking tiktok? She's simply asking about your work, and you must realise that what you're saying is a little unconventional, so you must expect some disagreement on this thread.

FWIW, both my 2 fed more frequently than 2 hourly and there was no medical problem - just happened to be their feeding pattern.

I have also to disagree with your advice. I'm not a counsellor but have breastfed for a total of 7 years so I guess that gives me some experience!
Both my babies fed often more frequently than 2 hourly and I know lots of people for whom that was the norm. Whilst this was going on for me there were no problems with positioning or anything else.

Oh, I meant to say, at this age a good poo is a huge percentage of a baby's bodyweight so if weighed pre-poo they look as if they've gained brilliantly, but if weighed post-poo the HV will start waving formula around....

Also, those scales they carry around are notoriously unreliable.

Am not a great believer in repeatedly weighing little babies - can you tell?

I know you didn't say my baby HAD a problem, you said 'usually has a problem of poor attachment or something else'. However this is a fine distinction to make for someone who is potentially anxious, emotional and sleep-deprived and by how you have worded it implies if there is not a problem with attachment there is a problem with 'something else' Perhaps you didn't mean it that way but frankly, if you deal with new mothers on a regular basis I think you should consider how you phrase things.

I really don't think you can isolate why a baby is demanding milk (and make no mistake about it babies can be just as in need of nursing for comfort or to feed to sleep than for nutrition) Who are you to say that it 'would' be exhausting and 'impossible' to maintain feeding more frequently than 2-hourly? If you tell someone this, it's funny how it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. What about slings which allow women to feed whilst going about their normal day?

What exactly do you mean by a 'professional'? It's a rather overused word IMHO.

I'm sure Tiktok is more than capable of taking care of herself, but my observation as someone who has been visiting this forum for quite a while is that the advice she gives can always be backed up by evidence rather than just stating that she's a 'professional' If your advice on frequent feeding is evidence-based, I'd be interested in seeing it. I have also never seen her challenge others just for the sake of it, only where she is concerned that inaccurate advice could cause problems or lead someone to question their ability to breastfeed. She is not the only person here trained to give breastfeeding advice (can you tell I hate the word professional?!) and where the advice given is accurate she doesn't just disagree with it for the sake of it.

I'm not trying to attack you, really I'm not. You clearly have a passion for helping women to breastfeed successfully and that's fantastic, but I don't think you're helping your cause by a) attacking experienced, respected, established memebers of this community and b) by giving misleading, badly-worded advice.

of course I expect disagreement, feeding more regualarly than 2 hours is a personal preference, and there is the odd baby beyond the age of 3 weeks that does still feed hourly and I'm not disputing that.

I feel like I'm being attacked actually by just voicing my professional opinions, if people took the time to read advice that I have given in general terms, without taking it to mean it to them personally you will see what I am advising is correct.

I have most definately not said that if you feed your baby more regularly than 2 hours your baby has a medical problem.

I think Mothers should have the right to professional help and support on here and a 2/3 hourly feeding routine after 3 weeks is maintainable and still classed as demand feeding, every 2 hours is a short amount of time, every hour feeding could do with a little professional help in helping the mother to prolong this if possible is what I am saying.

I appreciate words can get mis-construed on here and also that tik tok is very well respected and gives some great advice and is much needed on here, however I think there is room for 2 and more professionals.

It would be a far better place where breastfeeding is concerned if we all sung from the same song sheet, but sadly there will always be difference in opinions.

I don't think I have said anything too unconventional.

Daisy - I probably haven't worded everything I have said completely right, which is wrong, sorry its due to lack of time!

I have backed up everything I have said though, including the 'something else' you refer to and I stand by what I said earlier in the list of other reasons apart from poor attachment which may mean the baby is feeding hourly after 3 weeks of age.

daisym....I am puzzled by the suggestion I resent someone else coming on here and talking about bf. There are several people, professional and volunteer, who offer their training and experience as a resource and support and I have never resented anyone. We all 'work' well together and there is room for anyone who can offer what they can. I hope you will retract that suggestion.

I am not insinuating that you are lying at all.

I did ask who you were a bfc with, and you said you worked 'for unicef' and I said I didn't know unicef employed breastfeeding counsellors, but that is a genuine question....I don't know everything! I have not heard of unicef qualifying people as breastfeeding counsellors either, but again, maybe they do....or maybe you have trained with another organisation as a breastfeeding counsellor, in which case, I asked which one. You still haven't said, and I would still like to know - not to fall out with you, but to find out which organisation is having its members tell mothers that babies who need feeding more than 2 hourly 'usually' have a problem.

It may be you haven't quite got the wording right of what you wanted to say - but getting the wording right is part of being a breastfeeding counsellor, isn't it?

I am sure you are genuinely supportive of breastfeeding mothers and you have a lot of knowledge....but you say you give 'advice' which is something breastfeeding counsellors trained with at least 3 of the four vol. orgs do not say they do, and you did not spell the word counsellor correctly on more than one occasion (and getting the spelling of your job right is important, I think!!). So while you may be a professional (which I am not - I am a volunteer) and you may support bf mothers fantastically well in most respects, I am questioning this use of the term breastfeeding counsellor. You need to use it with care, as mothers are confused enough with all the different sources of suppport!

I hope you will accept my sincerity in this - I am not attacking you or anyone else, but concerned, above all, as you are, with getting the right help to the right women, worded in the right way

Thanks to the others on this thread who have stepped in to support me!

Sorry, this is for daisymlaisy again

I've just checked the unicef training in breastfeeding, and there are no courses that qualify people as breastfeeding counsellors....I think you must have taken either the 3-day (lactation management, for midwives and others) or the 2-day course (helping mothers to bf, for nusery nurses and similar), daisym, but neither is a qualification in itself.

I also read on another thread you are a self-employed breastfeeding counsellor, and this, I think, means you are not working 'for unicef' as you said before, but 'for' daisymlaisy....which is absolutely fine, and a perfectly decent way to earn a living, but it does mean there is no organisation ensuring consistency and quality, or checking how you put your info across (correct me if I am wrong).

I don't want to put you off supporting people and sharing your knowledge on mumsnet, but you need to be upfront about where it comes from if you are calling yourself a professional. For example, I say I am an NCT bfc, mears says she is a midwife, and we have an ABM counsellor, a doula, GPs, peer supporters and others who simply offer the experience of supporting mothers informally.

If you say you are 'trained by unicef' and you have done the 2-day or even the 3-day course, then you really cannot say you are a breastfeeding counsellor - it's misleading. A 2-day or 3-day course (without, for example, also being a midwife or other professional) really is nowhere near enough to gain all the skills implied by the use of the term.

There's nothing illegal about it, as the term is not protected in anyway - anyone can call themselves a breastfeeding counsellor and they are not violating any copyright - but I just don't think it's helpful to mothers to muddy the waters in this way. Normally, a breastfeeding counsellor belongs to an organisation that trains her, supervises her and ensures she continues inservice training, and which can, if necessary, stop her practising as a breastfeeding counsellor. I think this protects mothers.

I may have you wrong - and as I say, I do not doubt you have good knowledge and you are genuine in your intentions. But being less than frank about stuff, and getting the wording wrong, rings a few tentative alarm bells with me. Please don't be hurt or angry about this, or think I am attacking you. And feel free to correct me on anything I may have got wrong!

You're right.....like conversations, threads sometimes veer off, to the detriment of the original post!

I am happy for daisym to respond to me on a new thread

thank for that frau, was starting to feel a little forgotten about reading through this thread!

dummies not really successful anyway he's either spitting it out or ds1 is running off with it!

yesterday i expressed every feed for him, he took 4oz every 2hrs (it was hard work getting that for him i'll tell ya!) and he was a much more settled baby! he definitely likes to suck in order to fall asleep, which was not helping as he'd wake up as soon as i put him down.

hv is coming today to weigh him, and midwife is coming to checkon how i'm healing. i think i need more antibiotics for my wound, is still red mucky and stinks.. i don't like the thought that he's getting all tese drugs through me, especially as the last 2 lots have given him a tummy ache!

ahh no, not at all, it was nice to hear that with perseverence and help it can get sorted! cheers for the pom poms and support! much neded right now.

hi!

we're doing really well now! thankyou!

ryan weighs 9lb 13oz, he put on over 1lb in a week!! i'm a happy mummy now!

either the hv had dodgy scales that day or the antibiotics (which had given him diarrhoea) had efected him.. who knows!

thanx for the pom poms and cheers!

excellent news