Help please - (1st time poster)

[dunscared]

I'm breastfeeding my 14 week old son, although he's got his days and nights sorted re sleeping he seems to only properly feed at night. He feeds on 1 side only during the day maybe 2-3 times but then both sides at night 4-5 times. During the day he pulls off, messes about and if I persist - pukes everything up!
I spoke to my HV who wasn't very helpful and rang the NCT and was told it's normal so carry on!
The problem is I'm absolutely exhausted and with a 2 year old, (whose decided no more naps but hey i want to potty train NOW!) and dogs to walk plus all the usual housework etc a day time nap is not an option.
I fed my daughter for 10 months, exclusively for the first 5, but am thinking about trying formula at bedtime with my son. This is making me feel really bad that I'm not doing the "right" thing by my son but I'm so tired I'm getting so upset and angry now and begining to hate him and am worried what will happen if I don't get any sleep.
Any thoughts on how to help much appreciated. Thank you

Hi dunscared, my DD is 16 weeks and has been exclusively breastfed. Her sleep has gone up the wall in past few weeks and like your lo seems to feed more at night. During day she is just too nosy to stay on boob for more than 5 mins, and can then puke nearly all of it up!

Am thinking of the FF last thing myself, am planning on trying tonight and get DH to give her bottle - will let you know if I get a result. Although a woman from baby massage said her DD now wakes more at night since she switched to FF from BF. So I am not holding out much hope....

First of all, well done for bf still at this point. Most of my NCT class adopted a bottle of formula last thing at night. I dug my heels in and bf exclusively for 4 months at the end of which I was shattered and quite relieved that I was going back to work so had a valid reason to introduce formula feeds.

I don't think there is anything wrong with introducing a bottle of formula if it helps you get some more sleep. What is the point in being too tired to enjoy your time with your ds? I know there is a lot of pressure to bf exclusively nowadays, but each to their own, I figure... Or you could try expressing a bottle for the last feed and get your dh to do it.

Also, if you are going back to work at any point, it is important to get them used to a bottle. I had a friend who exlusively bf her first ds and gave up expressing a bottle for him for a while because it was a faff. He then refused to take a bottle and wouldn't take formula either when she went back to work when he was 10mo. She told me the other day that she had to make sure he had lots of milk in his solid food, but what a hassle... She says with ds2 that she will give him a bottle of formula every night.

HTH.

PS - giving my ds a bottle of formula last thing at night didn't work too well because he only ever took a few ounces (ultimately, it took about a month of giving him only formula feeds to get him onto formula). But it does mean you can get some extra sleep whilst dh does that feed...

dunscared - I have just posted on another thread about this very subject - mums who are knackered by being awake all day when they are up at night. Have you tried feeding at least 3 hourly during the day? If he gets more milk in the day he may look for less at night.

I don't understand your post when you say he has got night and day sorted but appears to be feeding more at night.

Do you feed him on one side during the day, change his nappy then offer the other side? Does he feed from the first side till he lets go on his own? Do you lie down and sleep while he is feeding at night?

Why do you need to be potty training just now? Can you get someone else to walk the dog? Do you have a oartner? Leave the housework just now. Seems to me you are overloaded with other things ATM which may be complicating daytime feeds.

Bedtime formula is not the answer IMO. Getting rest during the day is a priority. It can be done even with a toddler.

hi - well done for bf so far!! you may find though that formula makes no difference, I know a lot of people who "experimented" with formula to no avail!try contacting la leche maybe? plus there are other mnetters who know their onions far better than me who will no doubt be along soon.
Sod the housework! and the potty training for that matter. a tidy house and potty trained toddler does not make for a sane mummy. and that is what is important at the moment. can you get anyone to come and help you with the dog walking? or maybe take the kids for an hour or two so you can sleep?
thinking of you, it's tough i know

thank you for all your messages, i know there's no quick fix it's just nice to know i'm not alone.
Mears I do offer 2nd side during day but he's just not interested, he often pulls off 1st before he gets that contently full look too. At night he has 1 side, pulls off when looks fit to burst and sleepy but still takes 2nd side but once had that straight back to sleep which is what i meant by days and nights sorted. I heard this is reverse cycling?? Will try and keep to 3 hours during day.
re the potty training she wanted to but we stopped her just before son was born as advised not a good time, now wants to do it again and don't feel it's right to stop her again?
re husband he had a stroke when i was 8 weeks pregnant with son and so this year has been very stressful for us all. he hasn't really bonded with son and tends to make things worse ie grizzly baby to a screamer when helps! it's him whose pushing for formula.
Sorry for moaning, although feels good to actually say it (or type it) out loud .
just good to have acknowledgement about what i'm going through
thanks again

Hi dunscared
Sorry about your DHs stroke. You aren't kidding about the 'stressful year' are you? You're doing amazingly well, I take my hat off to you.
I introduced formula at night at about this point too. But it didn't mean that DS slept longer - it just meant DH could give him a bottle while I got a little extra sleep (had great difficulty with expressing). Before long DS started preferring bottle to breast & my breast milk gave out. Which in a way was sad but in another way it was the right thing - I was just too tired, and at least he was breastfed up to 5 months. It meant that I could get a babysitter more often & have a proper break. Which it sounds like you desperately need. Is there anyone at all who can help you - Mum, friends, hired help? It sounds really hard, and you're doing so well.

Sorry to hear about your DH dunscared. How is he?
He doesn't need to bottle feed to bond with his son. Does he hold him after he has been fed? I used to pass my babes to DH after I had fed them and he held them on this chest with their heads nuzzles under his chin. They slept there cozy and warm.
One of the difficulties of introducing bottles for Dads to do feeds is that often the novelty wears off and you need to do the feeding anyway. Much easier to breastfeed, less work. How about expressing breastmilk and giving EBM out a bottle? You don't need to express a full feed at once. Just express small amounts. If you leak milk when you feed catch it in sterilised breast shells. Soon mounts up.

Husband is getting there, went back to work full time this week! The stroke affected his personality not anything physical but when it happened i was told not to leave my daughter alone with him incase he became unpredictable. Fortunately this turned out not to be the case but he's not very good with stressful situations so can't cope with the crying etc. Son is a very very senstivive baby and for the 1st couple of months would only allow me to hold him, also had reflux, so carried everywhere! Husband great with daughter but as a result of above not bonded with son. Have pictures of him with daughter on chest as you suggest but son never settled with him like that and i suppose it's a selffulfilling cycle now as both tense up with each other.
On the plus side tried to keep to 3 hours as you mentioned earlier, he'd only sipped when he got up this morning as was still full from night. I don't usually call that a feed so would feed him again on demand and so maybe he was just snacking?? Anyway I did as you said and held out he screamed for 25 mins but had a fairly good feed just now, 1 side only, offered 2nd but only took a couple of mouthfuls and has now passed out.
thanks again for your support.

I should have said don't let him go longer than 3 hours. If he wants fed before that then let him. Wouldn't like to think of you more stressed with a screaming baby. Hopefully if you can get more milk in him during the day he won't be up as often at night. Perhaps your DH could start cuddling him when he is asleep?

BTW, you could express milk from the side he hasn't fed on.

mears what's happening?
just tried feeding him again. got back from walk and he was awake and sucking fingers. last feed was just about 3 hours ago so thought he may be hungry. but only fed on 1 side for about 5 mins then pulled off and put fingers in mouth. got upset when i tried to put him back on and stuffed fingers back in so hard was sick. now sat on my knee, sucking his thumb doesn't look hungry otherwise but then again doesn't look full?
i'm very confused i've tried feeding on demand but he seemed to just have a bit, so then i tried stretching it out as recommened by the HV so he's really hungry but didn't really help.
he's a good weight because he's feeding well at night but the lack of sleep is making me very shortempered with everyone and don't want to feel like this about him. help.

Dunscared - my ds fed for anything between about 5 and 12 minutes, but it was enough for him to have a full feed because he had a really strong suck. I worried for ages that he wasn't getting enough because everyone else fed their babies for about 30-40 minutes. Perhaps he just needs to suckle for comfort...

Dunscared - the NCT were right. This is normal behaviour. You can work on changing the freq night feeding as per the suggestins here. Babies of this age can certainly get what they need in a short time and if he wants only a few mins on one side, that's ok - he clearly gets enough to thrive that way. Stuffing fingers in mouth is what babies do - it doesn't nec. mean they are hungry. Let him set the pace, offering more feeds more often in the day but do not freak out if he only wants a small amount of time.

Fighting and struggling to get a baby to stay on longer is neither necessary nor helpful

I'm assuming he hasn't had a full feed when he pulls off. If he's not full, it sounds like he may have wind or gas.

When he pulls away, read his body language (he may be grunting, pull his legs up or turn red in the face).

Try winding him for a minute until he burps or finish passing gas (babies can't fart and eat at the same time), then try feeding again.

Persever, so he doesn't turn into a snacker. Good luck!

A snacker, Autumn?

Babies sometimes tke less time than others over feeding.

Why fight it?

PS. It's possible that your son is suckling at night to get himself to sleep. So at first he feeds, then when he's satisfied, he then pacifies instead of feed to make himself go to sleep. To him it'll be part of his night time routine. Never time his feeds, but it might be worth doing a breastfeeding diary for 3 to 4 days. That way, if his longest feed in the day is 45 mins, then you know in the night if he goes over 45 mins, it's likely he's pacifing. At night when he first feeds, take note of how he swollows, can you hear it, feel it, etc and see if it differes from the end of the feed.

Try cluster feeds and dream feeds around bed time. I use formula, but you could try with boob and expressed milk (so you don't get sore).

but autumn..babies will feed for different lengths of time at different times of the day. i don't think you can decide how long every feed should be like that.

Autumn, you are trying to help, bless you.....

But none of that is helpful at all, and could well undermine what this mum is trying to do, and make things a whole lot worse. I could go through the whole post and explain, but I won't!

Sorry

dunscared - don't worry that he only fed for 5 mins - that is all he wanted at that time. I certainly wouldn't force a baby to feed if they didn't want to. I would offer a feed 3 hours after previous one. If he doesn't want it that is a different matter. If he wants a feed sooner than that let him have it. I would just avoid having long spells between feeds during the day. Maybe you don't have any.
Babies are so individual it can be impossible to second guess them. Certainly might be worth offering a dream feed before you go to bed. I never found it worked but other mums swear by them.