When and if to start expressing?

[shandybass]

Hi I'm new to Mumsnet talk, but have been reading the discussions and getting a lot of useful advice prior to the birth of my lovely DD. I am wondering if Mumsnetters could help me about when and if I should express as I have been given different advice and am confused.
I have been breastfeeding on demand and things are going well except for a few fractious days and nights. I was keen to express milk for one feed to enable my husband to give the late feed for me to get some rest, for him to take part in feeding and to have a bit extra for those difficult days. The problem is I have been told yes this is fine and no this is definitely not recommended by different health professionals midwives and health visitors. From what I've read it seems to be ok if breastfeeding is established, but when is this? Any advice please, I don't want to make things go wrong! My DD is almost 4 weeks.

I was expressing at this stage, although i was advised not to. There were no problems for me. DS was feeding regularly and happily, so i just went for it.

Ok, ta, do you know what the main problems that could happen are, I was told maybe mastitis?

It's more that the baby may get 'nipple confusion' as the way they b/feed and bottle feed is different. Also, you must make sure your milk is definately in, and baby is regularly feeding from you. Expressing shouldn't affect mastitus on it's own- in fact i know people who have HAD to express because of mastitus.

Hi Shandy, my MW said I'd be okay to start expressing at about 3 weeks. Just a couple of ounces to start with and build up gradually. To be honest I couldn't get any more than that out a first. I just tried DD with an oz or so from a bottle so she got used to the teat, and then buikt up to a whole feed. Now at 15 weeks she'll happily have boob or bottle. You may need to experiment with teats though...my DD will only have the t/Tippee Close to Nature ones!!!

Good luck.

Hi again, well just had a very unsettled night and trying to catch up this am but failing. My HV has been and has sugested I give a bottke if formula rather than an expressed feed if I am exhausted as it will give my body time to recover and rest especially if dh gives it. She also said to try a dummy but if dd falls asleep with it to Definitely Not remove it. This all sounds a bit strange to me, does it sound ok to you pros?
Btw my dd has gained good weight in the last week 11oz to 7lb 15 its just me whose looking and feeling a bit ragged on all out bf. Should it be this hard and is formula easier I'm sure there must be less guilt!

we gave bf ds a dummy for first 3 months but only in the cot to settle - I was worried he'd start to comfort on my boob and it was important to me that my dh could settle him.
ds doesn't have it anymore - no stress about taking it off him just got to point that he didn't need it, my mum suggested it as its the only way babies can comfort themselves and they need suckling time.

No idea about formula, my hv told me to keep bf even when I had food poisioning when ds was 6 weeks... it was hideous but kept my supply up, hopefully someone on here can give advice

PS I started expressing at 3 weeks so dh could do bedtime feed... had no problems

i do not know re expressing, but you'll find something here it covers everything!
not good idea to give formula. night feeds are really important for establishing supply too, yes it is awfully tiring at first, try not to do too much of anything else. it gets loads easier honest.

Thanks, I dont like the idea of giving formula, it would feel a bit like failure, will try to rest a bit more. I do however feel very tied and on edge especially because no one else can help out much given that I'm not giving formula or expressing despite having good support people. I'm also a bit worried about using the dummy too much and losing my good milk supply.

i found the best thing to do was just to plonk myself and baby on sofa with laptop and telly just stay there all day. also took ds to bed with me to sleep for the afternoon a couple of times.

shandybass - i started expressing at 6wks, baby was a little more settled but with no 2 it was harder to express with no 1 running around. i always expressed at the same time , usually after babys feed on the 2nd boob .

kellymom as already linked too V Good

Congrats on your new DD Shandy!

I found that you should just go with the flow with bfing. I expressed when I was engorged, usually in the morning and after 2 months my boobs and baby became self regulating.

Do what feels right for you and dd. Proud to say I managed 13 mths and ds is a strapping lad at 3. All my own work (smug)

I began expressing for the same reasons as you but TBH, Hubby bottle feeding for me to rest didn't really happen (his routine and ds's routine out of sync!) We ended up with a frozen milk lake in storage! It got used but not quite as I'd have wished. It was handy during growth spurts.

Worried about the advice to give formula/dummy tho. DS had a dummy to settle (he was a sucky baby, have a scan to prove it!) and DS did get nipple confusion at first as a bottle flows faster than a nipple. In the end so long as it came he wasn't bothered about the packaging!

See if there are any bfing groups in your area, they have all the info and are good support.

Stick at it and all the best with it

I expressed from day one until week eight as DD fell aleep whenever she latched on, so she was bottle-fed breast milk for eight weeks and then when I stopped expressing at eight weeks she decided that she would feed from me after all - no nipple confusion there!

Ok sounds good, so is the general advice to avoid formula top ups when dd is unsettled and has fed from the breast for more than an hour and to use a dummy only as a last resort? And has anyone heard of having to leave the dummy in if she falls asleep sucking it?

My ds1 does fall asleep with the dummy in but spits it out when he's deep asleep. As cc21 says, like the bottle, you may need to experiment with teats on the dummy. My ds1 would not take to any dummy apart from the tommee Tippee Cherry one. Also, when he's hungry he won't take the dummy.

My DD is BF but has a bottle of formula at her last feed (after having a BF as well). She spent her first 2 weeks of life having feeds firstly down a tube, then in a bottle and finally breastfeeding (all was my expressed milk, so no problems for me expressing as soon as she was born, not much at first, but gradually increased). Guess we're really lucky she's not fussy how she gets her food, as long as she gets it (just like her father ). She's now 20 wks and we're trying a cup now as well as the odd spoon of babyrice/puree. Again, wolfing it down..... She'll never be slim like her mum
Seriously though, don't stress too much about how she takes it as long as she does somehow.... Also, expressing early on didn't seem to do my supply etc any harm, I also now have a milk lake in my freezer .....

Sorry, this is a bit long and boring but...

Hello I was advised to express when DS was a week old as he was losing too much weight as bf was not going as well as planned... I often used to express in middle of night after he had fed from one breast, i would express from other as seemed most full then and the WORST thing for me expressing was having to wash the damn pump each time, so I wanted to get as much as poss each time to make it worth it. I used to use the expressed bottle at bedtime, so I knew he was getting a good amount, and then top up with bf. I am sure because he started bottle feeding early it helped as I have a few friends whose DC's refused bottles at 3 /4 months as had never had one before. I wouldn't top up with formula unless you really really have to, but hey I am certainly NO expert so it may be the answer, especially if it means more sleep!

DS loved dummy when I tried it about four months (hated it when little), but within a few weeks got very dependent on it (he only ever had for naps and at night) and it culminated with him waking 15(yes 15) times a night crying for it as it kept coming out. Had started fine, and if it came out he didn't seem to notice / care, but got more and more attached to it so we had to go cold turkey and throw them all out. This is not the case for everyone at all though, have heard a lot of dummy success stories.

Good luck with your new DD, and I assure you it DOES get easier. I found the first few months very very hard, cried a lot, wondered if I would ever get more than four hours sleep etc, but things suddenly fell into place and now I am one of those highly annoying mums who gush on and on about their "perfect" baby (he is now 9.5 months).

No expert, but this is my experience. I'm currently bf my 4 month old. I personally find expressing an extra hassle, but clearly remember posting on MN when DS was about 6 wks old desperate for advice on expressing so that DH could help with night feeds. I got some useful practical tips (try search for 'Expressing Clique' thread), but also got several message along the lines of 'don't stress about expressing now, it'll get better'. At the time I felt pretty peeved as I was so sleep deprived I just wanted someone or something to make it all better. However, I was getting stressed about expressing as well as feeding (don't get on with pumps) and so I told myself that I would forget about expressing for 2 wks and then see how things were. This really helped as I just relaxed, and sleep did improve just by DS being that few weeks older.

I did try a dummy at about the same time but he never really liked it (and would deffo spit it out and roar if he was hungry) but around this time discovered thumb sucking and this is what made the most difference as he could settle himself sometimes.

I also expressed when DS was week old when we were admitted to hosp when he was losing too much weight and jaundiced. The view seemed to be that EBM was definitely preferable to formula, if the mother was able to express. He was cup fed.

I now have a small freezer stash, built up of the odd oz here or there when I have time/inclination to express. DS has had about 3 bottles using these stocks on the odd occasions that I have a social engagement . Sorry this is so long and rambling, suppose what I'm trying to say is give it time, express if you want to, but don't let become yet another thing to worry about - sounds like you're doing just fine .

Not sure if this helps at all, but I expressed from day one. Ds was in the neo natal unit and wouldn't take the breast. By the evening of the first day he hadn't actually had anything to eat (other than a drip of whatever it was they give). So the decision was taken to give him some formula while I expressed. Only got about 2ml though! So I would express and whatever little came out would be fed to him while his main sustenance came from formula via a cup.

A few days later I was shown another way of holding ds (cross-cradle I think) and bingo! Once he was on he didn't want to come off!

However he was such a guzzler that I really HAD to top him up with some formula not a lot, only about 30/40ml a couple of times a day after his bf. This was up till his last growth spurt.

He is now four months and hasn't had formula for ages. No sign of nipple confusion either. Still keep formula at hand just in case though.

I still express a couple of days a week just so I have a stock in the freezer for when I go out with the ILs in tow. they aren't too keen on bf in public. When it's just me and ds out with friends then I bf, secretly so ILs don't know - they think I'm giving him formula.

Your baby will tell you if she needs more and I'm sure you already know - the more you feed the more milk your body will produce.

In the first few weeks there is no need to get het up on bf only and not wanting to give formula - it's whatever gets you through. I know - I was dead against formula at first and it took me ages to realise ds just needed it. My dh explained it like when you go out for a meal, you've had your fill but just fancy some desert - the formula is the desert. Now ds is very happy with the boob! Good Luck.

Sorry, went off on one in my last post
Just thought I'd add in an agreement with maewestyemerrygentlemen - don't let expressing take over from everything else. I only do it when I can be bothered with washing the pump etc.

Also a bit concerned that you feel giving formula will be seen as a failure. That's how I felt, but at that time I couldn't have coped otherwise. You are doing the best you can for your baby and keeping yourself healthy and well is paramount.

There is too much guilt placed on new mums without us adding to it ourselves.

Again - sorry I've gone off on one...again!

ItsNotOnlyTheGoodBits (great name by the way), just to clarify that I wasn't trying to kick off on the evils of formula (have seen many scary and heated threads), just that when we were in hosp I was encouraged to try expressing first. If I hadn't been able to express and he still wasn't gaining I would have been happy to give him formula. Our prob wasn't related to him not wanting the boob, more his dozing off when he got on it .

x posts there

I have a very sucky baby too, and she has a dummy. Sometimes she will fall asleep with it in and it usually falls out when shes in deep sleep. I would say don't pull it out if she asleep and it sstill in as when I've done this DD wakes. My MIL is always pullin g it out saying 'she doesn't want/need that', next thing DD is screaming and in bad mood as she woke too soon!!
Again I have given the odd formuls top up, during growth spurts - usually an oz or two! But have not done so for ages! I agree with Itsnotonlythegoodbits, don't feel guilty over the odd oz of formula if neeeded. At times it saved my sanity and nipples!!

shandybass - basically you can express whenever youi want. The only thingi would say that with a 4 week old baby, you may not have a lot of time for expressing and you will be disheartened if you don't get much in the beginning. That then makes you doubt your supply.
Remember that your baby is ONLY 4 weeks old and will not be tied to you forever. Fractious days and nights are normal at this stage - absolutely no need to give formula. It will not solve anything.
The main thing you need to do is get some rest between feeds. Your DH can help with bathtime, and loads of cuddles inbetween. There is a lot more to looking after a baby than just feeds. I used to hand my babes over to their Dad once I had fed them and he sat with them lying against his chest. The heat kept them sleeping so that I could get a bath or a snooze or whatever.
What you are feeling is the normal exhaustion of a new baby whether you a breast or formula feeding. Most new mums do not try and catch up on sleep during the days and are doing other things like housework when the baby is sleeping. Babies are programmed to night feed for weeks/months on end so you should catch up on sleep when you can. Do you lie down in the afternoon?
Formula is best avoided unless absolutely needed. It disrupts an exclusively breastfed baby's gut flora which can potentially increase risk of allergies, asthma and eczema. Your baby does not sound as though formula is needed.
When you do express, remember that small amounts all add up. Don't feel you need to express loads in one go.
The dummy advice is a bit strange TBH. There has been a suggestion that babies who are used to sleeping with a dummy should not have it removed because of a potential increase in risk of cotdeath. Since your baby has not beeen regularly using a dummy I cannots see why you couldn't just remove it. Dummies really are best avoided during the early weeks as you can miss the cues of a baby wanting to feed. However, as long as you aren't letting her go too long between feeds she should be fine. HTH.

I haven't read all the other posts, but I think they say your milk is "established" after about 6 weeks, but other people recommend expressing from an early stage to help build up your milk supply. I would say that you need to be patient with expressing... It can take an awfully long time to get anything much out. I found that I could express one breast whilst feeding ds from the other one and that the milk would pour out because you have all the right stimulation. But, it depends upon your physique as to whether or not this is viable...

Also, if I remember correctly, they have a growth spurt around 4/5 weeks and feed ALL the time! There are a few more later, but can't remember when. Just remember 4/5 weeks being hard work!!!