Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Formula top ups

30 replies

NickyEds · 12/08/2015 19:55

Took dd to be weighed today and I'm a bit disappointed about how it went. Dd is 3 weeks and 4 days old, she's bf except for maybe 4 occasions where she had a tiny bit of f (less than 1 oz). I thought bf was going ok but the hv has suggested f top ups (or ebm top ups but I've no idea when I'm supposed to express). Dd weighed 3.05kg (6lb12) aat birth, lost 2 % by day 5, went to 3.1kg on day 10 then was 3.54kg (7lb12) today.
I feed on demand and I think her latch is ok. I offer both boobs at each feed and she comes off herself. We've had lots of wet nappies but no poo for 24 hours now. I'm not even sure how I would top her up- we tried a bit of f a couple of times and she just didn't really want it (she took a tiny bit- so little we've stopped bothering).I think I'd struggle to get f into her after a feed so it would have to be inbetween/instead of feeds rather than as a top up after feeds. I'm a bit gutted tbh. Any advice on her weight would be helpful-also any ideas on how to top up.

OP posts:
Quintanimo · 12/08/2015 19:57

And the hv thought the problem was....?

You're flying!

Original poster
NickyEds · 12/08/2015 19:58

Also, hv said that her weight wasn't a worry as such. just that they'd expect her to gain more , hence the top ups. She suggested two top ups a day.

OP posts:
stargirl1701 · 12/08/2015 19:58

Speak to a qualified lactation consultant. Phone a bf helpline. Go to a local bf cafe and speak to a bf supporter. Go to your local LLL meeting.

Find someone who knows about bf.

Lunastarfish · 12/08/2015 20:06

I had my 4 week old weighed today. She was 7lb 11oz at birth, lost 6% by day 3, day 10 was 7lb 8oz. Today she was 8lbs 6oz. Hv said everything is fine and I needn't get her weighed again until my routine appointment in early September.

I ebf.

Each hv has a different of opinion??/

mrslol · 12/08/2015 20:07

We went through exactly this, in fact even the weights were nearly the same! I got told the same thing about formula and top ups from various HVs but we were really luck that our main HV was brilliant and just kept reassuring us that some babies are big and some are small and some just take a little longer to find their "line" on the centile chart. I was also told to try topping up (by a different HV) but didn't and just did exactly what you are doing! You're doing a great job, all babies are different!

Racheyg · 12/08/2015 20:40

I'm no expert but it sounds like you are doing an amazing job and she is gaining weight Grin

I thought Hv only advised ff top ups if they continue to lose weights d not gain.

Well done op x

Writerwannabe83 · 13/08/2015 10:08

Sounds to me like you are doing a grand job!!!!!

As long as baby is gaining weight then I would just carry on as you are.

My DS was born on the 75th percentile and within 8 weeks or so he dropped to the 25th but as he was gaining weight my GP and HV were happy. I was never advised or told to give top-ups. They said that the more I breast fed the more milk I would produce and that in that reasoning offering top-ups was completely counter productive to my supply. Everytime a top-up is given is an opportunity to breast feed that has been lost - that's what my midwife told me anyway Smile

My son'a weight gain stabilised into his 2nd month of life and he continued to grow on the 25th percentile.

I was told that it can take some time for BF babies to "find their line" but as long as they continue to stick to it then there isn't a problem.

tiktok · 13/08/2015 10:20

This is a bit mystifying, NIckyEds....it's a bit worrying that your HV seems to think your dd needs to grow more quickly but the only suggestion she has is to give top ups. If your dd needs extra milk, you have it right there in your breasts :) So the obvious and first response to a concern like this would be to maximise access to breastmilk by feeding more often, or by giving three or four 'sides' at a time rather than just two, or by being more proactive in your offering (not waiting for your baby to 'ask' to be fed)....any of those would ensure she had the opportunity to have more milk.

If your HV has not suggested any of this, and instead suggested top ups, then it would be worth speaking to another HV.

Original poster
NickyEds · 13/08/2015 12:39

Dd is quite different to ds in that she doesn't really seem to take milk unless she's hungry. If I offer "extras" she just doesn't really latch or suckle properly, if I try and give a bottle her little mouth clamps shut. In the evenings she wants to be on the boob for up to 3 hours but the rest of the time she won't just take it because it's there IYSWIM.
I took her to be weighed as I was a bit worried that she didn't seem to be feeding for long enough at every feed (some were just 5 minutes). HV is coming back on Monday to weigh her again. I'll try offering more bf to tempt her. Already worried about next weighing now Sad

OP posts:
Mrscog · 13/08/2015 12:56

I could be wrong, but it sounds like she's stayed on her birth centile line - I really would speak to another health visitor before getting stressed out (unless you have other concerns that you haven't put here) it sounds like you've done a fab job.

Roseotto · 13/08/2015 14:17

my babies tend to come off the breast when they are windy. a good burp and they will feed quite a bit more. just a thought. you sound like you are doing great.

tiktok · 13/08/2015 15:23

Nick, your conversions from metric to imperial are incorrect - but if the metric measurements are accurate, I don't understand why your HV has even raised this. Looks to me that she was on the 9th centile and is now slightly above this....perfectly fine.

Perhaps ask for more details about their concerns when you see the HV again, and yes, if you are not happy, ask for another opinion.

Roseotto · 13/08/2015 18:56

by the way I find easiest times to express are either in the morning or when baby has a long nap (usually early afternoon).

Original poster
NickyEds · 13/08/2015 20:47

Confused I've copied them directly from her red book-the metric are definitely correct, she was born at 3.05kg and was 3.54kg on Wednesday. The hv said that she was born on the 25th centile and has dropped to the 9th, hence the top ups. Aarghh. I'm tempted to carry on as we are until Monday and see what she weighs then, I'm just getting worried and stressed now.

OP posts:
Mrscog · 13/08/2015 21:04

My understanding is that if a baby is well, gaining at least 3-4 oz per week and hasn't dropped more than 2 centile lines then all is considered ok. Tik Tok's advice is also excellent. Just spend the next few days feeding her as much as she'll take, and try not to worry - I think your HV sounds a bit uninformed/OTT.

Original poster
NickyEds · 13/08/2015 21:16

Thanks. I don't really see what else I can do- giving her the f felt like force feeding (she really didn't want it), I feed her on demand now (dp says she's fed on the meerest whimper of a request!) and I've no idea when I'd express (I also have a 20 month old to think about). If I put her to the boob when she's not really interested she just doesn't latch on. Trying not to worry.

OP posts:
bimandbam · 13/08/2015 21:19

You are doing a grand job I promise.

I can't remember the figures but ds followed a similar.line. born on 25th, dropped a bit then put it back on then settled on the 9th for a few weeks/a month. Then up to the 25th at about 3 months which he follows consistently now.

Listen to tiktoks advice. Keep offering. Any chance of some skin to skin early in the day? I know it's not always possible but maybe next time your dp is off bugger upstairs with the baby and some drinks and snacks for a few hours. Good excuse for a nice lazy morning anyway!

tiktok · 13/08/2015 21:31

Birthweight centiles are notional. I think this is explained in the red book but if not you can google rcpch centile charts and get more details. Your baby was on the ninth centile age two weeks. She is now just above this. Her weight gain is within normal as far as I can see. The Hv is taking the notional birthweight centile as a literal starting point and judging progress from there. At least that what it looks like!

Sparrowlegs248 · 14/08/2015 08:42

Hi nicky I'm reading this with interest as feel i may be advised to top up when DS is weighed later today.

He is 3 wks old today.
Birth weight 9lb 1 4.1kg
Day 5 had lost 200g
Day 10 had gained 40g
Day 17 had lost 80g

So has ultimately lost weight. I have had a variety of conflicting advice and been very upset about this. DS does however look very healthy, pink, alert and is a busy active baby and strong too.

I was advised on Monday to switch feed, so 5 minutes one side then change to other, carry on until he's finished. If he falls asleep try to rouse him, strip him down and change nappy if need be. Also if he seems to be suckling but not swallowing, do breast compressions to get the milk in his mouth (look on YouTube, basically hand express into his mouth)

I have been doing all this and really hope he has gained a bit today. I don't want to top up with formula.

He is having plenty of wet/dirty nappies.

He was also feeding a LOT which i think is why i was so surprised at him losing weight. But looking back i think he was comfort sucking a lot and not getting much milk in. Two days of following the advice above and i have noticed a difference in how he feeds (hopefully not wishful thinking)

Might be worth a trying the same til your next weigh in? I'll report back after mine later.

Original poster
NickyEds · 14/08/2015 14:49

Notta dd is the opposite of your ds in that she doesn't do a lot of comfort sucking, she gives hunger cues, latches on well and does strong sucks for about 5-10 minutes (with little breaks), slows a bit towards the end of her feed, then unlatches, then the same the other side- then she's usually done, if I try to put her back on the breast she fusses and will just hold my nipple in her mouth but not suck. we're having lots of wet nappies but no poos since Tuesday now, which the hv said was fine but I'd like to see one now as it feels like a long time to go for such a young baby.

I'm not too concerned about using f, i'd like dd to be mix fed in the end, I just think that routinely topping up this early will effect my supply (it did with ds), especially if it's not necessary.i suppose like you I just hoped she'd gained more weight than she had. Your ds was quite big at birth so he could be catching down??
Hope it goes ok today

OP posts:
tiktok · 14/08/2015 15:48

Hi, Notta.

You report:

"He is 3 wks old today.
Birth weight 9lb 1 4.1kg
Day 5 had lost 200g
Day 10 had gained 40g
Day 17 had lost 80g"

That's an unusual pattern - what happened between day 10 and day 7? I would wonder about weighing accuracy and scales and recording error. The fact you say your baby appears strong and healthy does not match a baby losing weight.

Babies do sometimes 'catch down' but they do this by gaining slowly, not by losing weight.

The switch nursing and the breast compressions are good suggestions and will result in a higher milk intake overall. On what you say here, it sounds like your baby is fine and this should be reflected in the weight.

What was the conflicting advice you got?

Sparrowlegs248 · 15/08/2015 07:23

Hello, I typed a lengthy response yesterday which appears to have vanished!

Good news is that the switch feeding and compressions have worked. He's gained 140g since Monday. So happy and relieved!

I received SO much conflicting advice tiktok - since last Monday I have seen 4 midwife and a health visitor and spoken a bf person. All said different things. It was overwhelming and upset me a lot.

Sparrowlegs248 · 15/08/2015 07:28

Also re days 10 - 17, the mw had told me to try to make him feed for longer and go longer between feeds. However I fed him when he wanted feeding. He was cluster feeding a lot so 2 hrs between feeds was never likely!

tiktok do you think i should continue to switch feed and do compressions? He does seem to be feeding more efficiently himself now (what a bloody learning curve this is!!)

Yesterday Mw said go back to one side at a time, offering second if he wants it.

cookiefiend · 15/08/2015 07:49

Hi,

I had bf stress with DD and wound up topping up and expressing constantly, but she had lost more weight initially (11% of birth weight). What the specialist bf midwife told me that I found helpful:

  • growth curves include babies who are exclusively ff. ebf babies do not gain as much weight as quickly and there is no need to worry about this. As adults we are all different heights and weights and all doing just fine and it is the same with children.
  • overall weight gain is weight gain and as long as baby is gaining and meting other mile stones (alert, eye contact, smiles etc) then there is no real cause for concern.
  • the temptation when worried about weight is to get the baby weighed weekly. While this is helpful for (experienced in bf ) midwives to get a picture of what is happening it causes panic in mothers- he has only gained x. But you ned to look at the growth curve over several weeks to see a picture- weight gain does not actually happen in a perfect curve, some weeks the baby will gain loads- others less and this too is fine.

I remember how stressful and all consuming it is, but it sound like you are doing fine and feeding in demand. Top up are not poisonous and I don't regret doing them, but it is harder to get back to ebf once you have started them so I wouldn't rush into it. Make sure you are speaking to someone with decent bf experience and not just your hv. Is there a bf clinic run by the nhs near you? Here there is one most week days and it was great.

caravanista13 · 15/08/2015 08:56

Do you have a local breastfeeding drop in? Have you checked out the Kellymom website? It sounds as if you're doing a great job, and just need reassurance to carry on with what you're doing.