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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Any breastfeeding help for someone who failed last time?

32 replies

EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 09:47

Any advice from you experienced people out there? Molly who is 3 wasn't breastfed due to horrific post-natal ward experience that had me bleeding and with green nipples within 24 hours of delivery.

I've really decided to give it a go with Fat Zach. Today is day 4. Milk is now well in. I've managed to get him to do three feeds, 20 mins each and feel pleased. But he won't latch on every time he is hungry. He does this huge song and dance thing.

I have to calm him, present, calm, present and sometimes he goes into full on paddy mode and only a few spoons of SMA calms him down again.

It dents my confidence. He's got jaundice and obv very hungry but my milk is in now, we've managed feeds together. I just wish he'd do it everytime.

Last time I got him on was midnight and this morning he just won't latch on. He will put the breast in his mouth and rear away, hands all over the place and screaming. I've given him some expressed milk but my hand pump only gets a bit out and my milk has only just come in. But he seems to like having my milk from a cup.

I am also getting sore now and got a blister on one nipple. But I can cope with the pain as I want to do this so much.

I've called NCT and my friend from LLL is coming today. Anyone got any other suggestions? Just need some confidence I think as I am worried I am really harming him.

I am wavering.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 09:48

I should add I've been blogging about it daily at www.doingitallagain.com and if anyone really experienced who has time, can read how I am doing it.

OP posts:
Sugarfree · 15/11/2006 09:56

Don't have much in the way of advice because I ballsed it up 3 times myself.
Hold tight,til your friend gets there.
I imagine he likes it from the cup because it's easier for him,you are not 'harming' him,you're doing your best.
Someone wise will be along soon I'm sure.

Sugarfree · 15/11/2006 10:00

Oh,and the pain and his paddying suggests to me that his latch isn't as efficient as it could be,I'm sure you know that.Your friend will help with that.
What about a few spoons of EBM til he calms and then try again in a different position.
I wish I could be more help bacause I know exactly how you feel and how distressing it is.

hotmama · 15/11/2006 10:04

I really hope I can help as I wasn't 'successful' with dd1 - basically mixfed from the beginning and then ff from 10 weeks.

Different story with dd2, was exc bf until 28 weeks and I am still bf and she has just turned 9 months - it can be done!

I went to La Leche meetings when pregnant with dd2 - so I got better informed, printed the first few pages off Kellymom.com - which I referred to daily - worth knowing about growth spurts etc.

In the first week, I got my local La Leche contact to come around and help with latching/positioning etc - the best thing I learned was to feed lying down - an absolute godsend!

I have/had flat nipples and both dd's were sleepy babies. I used breast shells to help get my nipples into the 'right' shape. I put them in about 10 mins before I was going to feed - really helped.

Get some Lansinoh for your nipples - about £10 a tube - but will be the best thing you buy - really helps with the healing.

Also I posted loads on here - and mners were fab.

It is such early days for you and I found it did take weeks to crack - but did get easier (now it is soooo easy and dd2 only feeds 3 times a day).

My gut feeling is to stop giving any top ups, give lots of skin to skin and try to feed at least 8-12 times a day in the first few weeks - it does get better honest.

Hopefully, your LLL friend will be a huge help.

Hope this has helped come back if you want more advice - or want to CAT.

JackieNo · 15/11/2006 10:12

For the hands thing, you could try kind of swaddling him - you lie him on his back on a blanket (actually a cot sheet works quite well - not too bulky), and kind of wrap each side of the sheet over his arms then behind his body, then wrap the rest of the sheet round him, so he's a sort of neat parcel, iyswim. Keeps his hands out of the way, and if he's not waving them around, he may be more likely to concentrate on the matter in hand (or mouth). Good luck - take it feed by feed, and hope things improve.

bctmum · 15/11/2006 10:14

bf shouldn't hurt - have read your bog on the m/w's & pain - so sorry this happened to you.

talk it through with the nct & lll.

be kind to yourself. Get some lansinoh cream for your nipples, get comfy to bf and be sure that you will overcome what's happening xxx

Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 10:47

Thanks sugarfree

It just helps having some kind words from people who know what it is like.

I managed to get some EBM out today and gave that to him and I just got him to do 25 mins on the right boob. But it has taken since midnight to get him on it!

OP posts:
Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 10:50

Hot mama

Thanks for those ideas. I can bear the pain. It is nothing like how it was with Molly. It is just him sucking. The thing is he seems to want more after 25 mins on one boob but won't settle to go on the other. So I've given him some EBF from a cup after the recent feed. I just wish he could latch on every time he was hungry as I really want to feed him.

I know, wishful thinking in hte early days.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 10:51

jackieno

Yep great idea. I am going to do that for the next feed deffo. He punches my boobs and gets his mouth off my doing so. So will try that. Thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 10:52

bctmum

Well it isn't searing mindblowing pain like with Molly. Just takes some getting used to. I don't notice it after the first five mins of a feed.

I am just in panic station mode and worried I am going to fail. Stupid mindset I know, but I guess the hormones take over rationality.

Thanks for your support.

OP posts:
JackieNo · 15/11/2006 11:03

Sounds like you're doing brilliantly - good luck with it.

Sugarfree · 15/11/2006 11:26

At least you are being rational with your panic,I don't think I ever got rational and breastfeeding going at once.
And well done for getting 25 mins done.

Philomytha · 15/11/2006 12:44

With the mad panic once he's hungry thing - how soon do you start to notice his hunger signals? If you can catch him earlier before he gets to screaming mad frustration, perhaps it'll be easier? You prob already know about the early signals - rooting, hand to mouth, mouthing, sucking motions.... Also undressing them and you so you have skin touching helps calm them down.

My ds used to take ages to latch on in the first weeks, flailing and screaming and putting both hands over his mouth before trying to latch on, and we just had to keep trying again and again and again until he managed it. The wrapping thing worked really well, also very frequent feedings (every hour during the daytime, every three-four hours at night) to keep him from getting too hungry. This also helps get your milk supply up nicely.

Good luck!

harlot · 15/11/2006 13:43

When I was expecting #2, a nice midwife once told me "you don't really start to enjoy breastfeeding until month 2". "2 months??", I said! "I'll never enjoy it". (1st time had been a nightmare for me too).
But she was right, I ended up loving it.

Hope that gives you some confidence that this is just teething problems and it'll be alright in the end! (Was all down to getting the 'latch' right and ensuring he got a complete mouthful of boob!)

Pitchounette · 15/11/2006 14:19

Message withdrawn

Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 14:35

Philomytha

Thanks for that. That was reassuring. He does a lot of flailing. I've wrapped him up this afternoon and keep trying. Not got him on since 10.30 but did give him some expressed milk from a cup to calm him down.

I am probably not doing well at his signals. He seems to go from quiet to screaming with hunger. But I will pay closer attention. At the moment he is contanstly rooting and wants me but can't calm enough to allow himself to do.

LLL friend came round for three hours and watched me try. She said I am doing it right and, yes, he hates being forced on and likes to do it himself. But maybe shoudl let him get very hungry and no EBM until he is forced to work for the milk.

Got to express though as boobs hurt a lot.

Thanks for your help

OP posts:
Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 14:38

Hi Harlot

Well you'll know what I mean about being so scared of failing. I really want it to work. I can cope with the pain this time and his crying. Just worried about him being unhappy, starving and the jaundice. I keep giving in with the EBM. Maybe I shoudl tough it out and let him get hungry and work for the food.

I mean he went from 4am to 10am and finally fed. Last night he went for a while until a feed a midnight as well.

I just want it to work. He just needs to suck. I know my latch and hold is right, as it feels good when it works and I can hear him gulping down the milk.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 14:41

Hi Pitchounette

Thanks for responding. It helps hearing from people who had different experiences with their children.

I do pump before to pull my nipples out and to get milk on hand for him. I rub it over his mouth and me as well so he knows it is there.

He is level with me, close to me and nipple is mouth, which is wide and receiving all of the right part of the breast. The only thing is he screams and rears away.

I am worrying and panicing loads. Mainly that he isn't getting enough per day. I know it is only day 4 and we are both trying to get it to work. I hope the midwives remain supportive when they weigh him tomorrow, as I know he will have dropped quite a bit.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmilyTurner · 15/11/2006 14:42

Sugarfree and Jackieno

Thanks for coming back. I am not sure I am rational. I feel like a hormonal mess!

OP posts:
tamum · 15/11/2006 14:46

Emily, I am no expert, but have you tried feeding in a completely different position, like lying down? It sounds to me as though he might just prefer a different way of doing things, at least to start with. I know it's not ideal, but it could be worth a try. I think it's great that you are willing to persist, it's not easy, is it?

Charleesunnysunsun · 15/11/2006 14:48

EmilyTurner - I'm not sure if what i have to say will be of any help, i gave birth to my second baby 6 days ago but this is the first time i have breastfed.
I was really worried he wasn't getting enough and was worried i wasn't doing it properly, he to gets all in a paddy and throws his head and hands about when feeding. My midwife suggested swaddling him firmly so his arms are by his side when he feeds so it's one less thing to contend with, it seems to be working well so far.

The only other thing i have been doing is just being persistant i wake him u every 3hrs on the dot and change his nappy and undress him so he's wide awake then put him on the breast, then repeat and offer the oher breast.

I found its a really sort of emotional thing after having a baby to then have to contend with the worries of feeding but your doing well and have had the sense to call a friend for support. I hope your midwife can help and things start to get easier for you.

FWIW - i thought my DS would be slow at gaining weight as he has short feeds and sleeps all day but was plesently suprised to find he has gained well.

Sugarfree · 15/11/2006 14:54

You would think nature would have made it more 'failsafe' wouldn't you?
Keep going.
Keep this thread bumped through the evening,more people on later.

3sEnough · 15/11/2006 14:55

Poor lass - I remember the panic, frustration and worry very well indeed. Some babies are just like octopusses - you need about 10 hands to stop their hands, legs, heads, mouths, tongues from doing the wrong thing all the time and the more annoyed and stressed they get the worse you get and vice versa. I remember that saying shhhhh to my ds and rocking him slightly whilst latching actually helped to calm me down (not sure about him!lol) and it helped the process. Think on this - you've got him (eventually) to latch on many times now - it can't get much worse and he will start to learn soon that fighting doesn't help matters and get quicker/bigger. Great that it is bearable after a few minutes. I found that in the early weeks of bf, if they were in the wrong position, it was agony and you really couldn't carry on but if they were correct it was damn uncomfortable for a couple of minutes but just about bearable. This DOES disappear I promise. I've now bf 3 babies but every problem was there with the first one - the next 2 were a piece of cake comparatively...this is effectively your first 'long termer' and you're doing REALLY well!

Sugarfree · 15/11/2006 18:18

Bumping

tiktok · 15/11/2006 18:24

Emily - it is such early days, you will feel better if you give yourself and your baby a break.

Hold him close, skin to skin, between your breasts and just let him sleep and then rouse naturally to come to your breasts without a big performance.

The pressure can feel great when you have had a bad exp. before.....but chilling out really does help.

I would even suggest not coming on to Mumsnet, seriously....I think you need to switch off for a while and just relax with your baby

Hope the midwife and whoever else can boost your confidence and help you have some comfortable feeds.