Getting baby to open mouth wider to latch better?

[weeblueberry]

I'm still ebfing DD2 despite being in pain for the four weeks she's been feeding. The left side is considerably more painful than the right (which only ever gets really painful when she's been on a long time) and I think it's because she finds latching on the left more difficult. Probably not helped by the fact that I'm anticipating pain on my left so am tense. She doesn't seem to open her mouth particularly wide on either side but is more inclined on the right for some reason. I've been to a number of breastfeeding groups and councillors but they've either said to persevere until she's bigger and better at feeding or have made suggestions, unfortunately none of which seem to have worked. I've tried the following:

Better position with get across my body - still hurts and kills my arm to basically support her weight the entire feed.

Nipple shields - still loads of pain and latching is really hard because she still refuses to open her mouth wide on my left side so she's essentially nipple feeding with a shield.

Midwife and HV have both said def no tongue tie.

Gp suspected infection but I've been on a week of ab. No change.

Holding nipple like a burger and stuffing it into her mouth. Works a little but she tends to latch ok then comes off after a few mins to nipple feed...

Feeding from right only and expressing from left to let it heal. This came closest to working but my right started to get sore because she feeding from it every couple of hours.

I think it all comes down to getting get to open her mouth wider which she seems really reluctant to do. I've tried all the tricks of tickling her bottom lip (nothing), brushing her cheek (nothing) and putting her chin on my breast and pushing nipple to her upper lip (nothing). She just still barely opens her mouth. Not yawn sized which is needed for a good latch.

Sorry for the huge post but any suggestions?

I had this with left sore side and poor latching on the left. I only offered sore left breast and I used to sit up in bed and put a pillow across my lap and DD on it then lean forward and drop my nipple into her mouth. Once latched on I would put my arms underneath pillow and raise DD and myself back up (letting her feed lying on pillow for a while) and raising my knees. A retired midwife showed me this technique and it worked well, although left side was always a bit sorer and a different size to right. Lying on her back seemed to make my DD open her mouth wider.

Good Luck

ave you tried folding your nipple up so that when it pops out there's a lot more in her mouthnd your nipple is against the roof of her mouth

this is it, worked for me, didn't realised it had name

I'm glad you posted this OP,

I've been having the same issues with DD, I distinctly remember with my previous babies they'd open their mouths like roaring lions and take the whole area around the nipple and I could feel the latch was deep if that makes sense, DD is so small she just doesn't seem to be able to get her mouth wide enough to get a decent latch and now I'm sore and we both possibly have thrush, I'm going to keep an eye on this thread and try the nipple flip technique next feed.

What kind of birth did you have? Cranial osteopathy can help release a tight jaw, especially if baby had an assisted birth and might have been a bit 'squashed' coming out.

I'd get an expert opinion on the tongue tie (bfn drop ins are good), as midwives and health visitors aren't necessarily trained to spot posterior TT in particular.

But finally, in my experience, yes, as they get bigger they do open wider. I noticed my son opening wider at about 6 weeks ish I think.

This flipple technique worked for me.

Flipple

Think I was taught to brush nipple downwards over his nose and top lip. Always worked after that.

Thank you all. Will try the flipple technique!

One of the midwives who I've seen and said there was no tongue tie is a breastfeeding support worker so I'd hope she'd have seen something if it were there.

She can open her mouth wide - have seen her do it on a few occasions. Just not when she feeds sadly.

Not very technical and I only used to do this to get ds to feed for a little bit longer not because of proper latching problems, but, once latched, sort of "tickling" his jaw joint next to the ear made him open his mouth wider.

I had EXACTLY this! DS couldn't open his mouth wide enough and the midwife, HV & BF counsellor said no TT. Eventually moved onto formula and the second BF counsellor who I asked for advice on gradually moving over said there was a classic TT and was nobody spotted it. If there is anyone else you can check with, I would.

Flipple helped me.

Also, once DD is on, I can sometimes use a fingertip to gently pull her chin down a millimetre or two - helps a bit.

Agree about getting TT checked for by a trained BF person.

I've tried the flipple thing and it's definitely made a difference. The only thing is my boob doesn't seem to be as...erm...pliable as the one in the video so it's tricker to grab the end between my fingers. I'm trying hard though but am going to pop to GP tomorrow to rule out thrush (the actual breast tissue is sore and burny now...).

Just want it to be pain free at this point - it's hard enough without it being sore eh?

I'm so glad I have found this thread as it is the exact problem I'm having at the moment with my first baby. Has also been checked for TT and I have witnessed his ability to open wide just not when he's feeding. Will try this other technique and hope it works for us! X

Wee and pp how are you getting on?

I've been using the flipple technique but I'm finding DD is attaching well initially and then lapsing into a nipple feed. I think it's because my let down is pretty fast and she's trying to control it herself by clamping down. I've tried to hand express a little before she goes on but she still continues to do it.

When I take her off halfway through a feed when I notice her nipple feeding she's often so sleepy that she barely opens her mouth at all to reattach. She makes a half arsed attempt to open her mouth and then just gets bored and closes her eyes and stops. I then pull my top up and move away, she wakes up and then has to go back on again.

Wee....I suffer from thrush with all my babies, my gp totally ruled it out first time and I carried on with the soreness until I had welts and gave up feeding. I didn't have much whiteness on them but they went bright red and the soreness got worse after it had started to go away. A Dr friend finally pointed out that my daughters mouth was full of it before I started treating it. Second time round I just treated myself when I felt it coming and it never got as bad. If you use the thrush cream for nappie rash (the 1% I think it is) and just wipe it off before feeding, midwife told me this and it made for a much less painful experience second time round. This time I have used it anyway just incase!!

My first never opened properly either but I gave up before conquering it, currently feeding dd3 and she is quite similar, I do the burger thing you describe and she does fall off a lot too. Hope they sort it, with dd2 the soreness went at about 6 weeks and similar this time, I could scream at the nct lady who said it wouldn't hurt!!

I actually went to the docs yesterday and explained that the pain was now in my breast having started on my nipple. The doc was pretty wary because the pain is primarily on my left and she said it was really unlikely to be thrush unilaterally. She prescribed me cream and something for DDs mouth so we're also trying that now.

But I spoke to my friend yesterday who said the standard medication didn't work for her and she needed something stronger. She said it can be bought over the counter though.

I'll have a look at what you've suggested though. What's the actual name of the cream - do you know?

Regular canestan but not the one for downstairs, it's the milder one for fungal nappy rash and athletes foot.....charming! It did work for me and I had started getting the pain in my breast too but I basically used it throughout feeding. I used it for every feed and then Once it was gone I then used it twice a day. I also had the nystatin for babies mouth which both dd1 and dd2 had and both times it took two courses to clear up. Sorry if tmi but I am very leaky which I think causes it for me, I now use lansinoh pads as they keep me the driest, the other ones wouldn't last more than an hour so it was always damp, if this is the same for you consider trying diff pads so it stays as dry as possible and that should help it not return.

Hopeing this stops the pain for you. I rememeber my husband wondering when dd2 was about 4/5 months how I had found it so hard as it looked so easy now (I cried most feeds in the early days!!)....you and baby will figure it out and you will be pain free and then it becomes enjoyable at last!

Thank you lovely!! I'll look into the canesten :)

I've got the Daktarin oral gel for DD this morning and the same stuff but in cream for me, I had something different for DS though, I'm sure it was drops that were almondy flavour (I might be thinking of something else though!) hopefully it works, she's an unhappy little dot and I feel like my nipples and surrounding breast tissue may be on fire, flipple is working well though.

How old is your wee one? I wasn't able to be prescribed the gel from the pharmacy because DD is under 5 months old - they said it was a choking hazard. Is your child older? If so I applaud you for getting so far with it being painful!!

What you're describing really sounds like TT to me. Sleepiness on the breast and slipping back to shallow latch are often due to the fact the baby is finding it such hard work to stay latched on.

I would definitely see if you can get your baby checked by someone else. Maybe a private lactation consultant?

Agree with Bird-sounds like TT to me (posterior is tricky to spot as the tongue can look ok from the outside - trained breastfeeding supporters missed my DD's TT). Your symptoms sound very like my DD's - find a lactation consultant if you can and get it properly assessed.

Also try osteopathy as this can help with tension causing the lopsidedness and help widen the mouth's gape.

If you're in London check out the baby feeding clinic at the Smart Clinic near South Kensington, run by a lactation consultant and osteopath. It's private and therefore costs, but could help you get to the bottom of your feeding problems (and they'll assess/treat TT if necessary).

Not to counter anything other posters have said (it's a v.long time since I bf!); I remember being told (I think by an NCT counsellor) to 'tease' the baby, ie pull away when they're about to latch on - mine would then jerk their heads back in total shock, complete with gaping maw, ready for the 'aim for the roof of the mouth' technique. You had to be quick with it, though; hesitation led to a missed opportunity and screams - back to square one.

I am so so with you guys on the TT thing. The thing that's confusing me is that I've seen her open her mouth massively. And she is getting better with the latch now I'm using the flipple thing and being more patient with her until she opens her mouth properly. It seems to have made a difference to really take my time with her and not give in when her mouth is on the small side.

Our LLL branch only does meetings and then Q&A after. No private consultations. And the meeting was yesterday - I was all set to go but have developed a chest cold and didn't want to go into a room of babies and pass it along. If it persists the last resort is speaking to our local NCT breastfeeding consultant which I definitely will do.

We took DD1 to a cranial osteopath so will also beat that in mind. She had a very easy birth so not sure it will help but definitely remember to keep that option in my back pocket - thanks!