Help needed! Should I just give up?

[snowydrops]

I am having a bad morning stuck inside in a circle of feeding, expressing and crying (me and DD!)

DD2 is 7 weeks, she was born with a tongue tie, we had thrush and severely cracked nipples so I expressed and she took breast milk from the bottle.. That cleared up and then I mostly breastfed up until 4-5wk with a bottle or two of expressed milk when we went out (don't like public feeding as she's really fussy and on off all the time).

I introduced a bottle of formula in the evening at 11pm so I could 'test' altho in fact I express. She takes approx 45 min to BF and is rarely satisfied meaning I often top her up with BM after too.

Currently I am in a cycle of attempting to BF (sometimes she will / sometimes she screams and fisses(, the. Giving a feed from the bottle or at least a top up and then having to express. I am going mad. I have another DD who I am basically neglecting because I am in this horrid feeding nightmare.

I want to give up but the guilt is incredible. I just want some sort of routine to stick to but every day we seem to go around In circles. I don't mind BF but she is very slow and gets very frustrated and so public feeding is not an option so I've upped the expressing but now I feel trapped in the house for both feeding and expressing and it's really depressing me.

Can anyone suggest anything or just offer some words of encouragement. I should add in the day she feeds every 2/5-3 hrs and at night it's every 4 so not so bad but I'm still knackered.

I was unable to bfe. It just didnt happen. I would express every few hours but i didnt get much bm and i was exhausted. I really wanted to bf but i realized that formula is not poison, it is baby food!
The important thing is that my baby was gaining weight, isnt it?

Be kind to yourself. Make the best choices for your family.

snowy :( :( So sorry you are experiencing this.

It's so hard to tell from your post what is going on - some of what is happening may be making things worse, and getting you into something of a pickle which needs to be unravelled (mixed metaphors....you know what I mean!).

For example, the topping up, the expressing and the bf direct, often in the same short period, is THE hardest and most complex way of feeding, and no wonder you are feeling upset, knackered and torn in two with your other dd's needs :(

It might help to talk to someone who understands about bf, and do it at length, maybe with a visit to them. Any of the bf helplines will be able to listen and help you fathom your next step. A breastfeeding support group/baby cafe is a good source of help, too.

45 mins for a breastfeed is within normal, and does not have to mean your dd needs formula as well. OTOH, the bottles/formula can impact on your supply and the ability of your dd to get a happy feed direct within a shorter time...it's not possible to judge.

The feeding does not seem frequent, and it might help if you were able to feed more often, perhaps over a short, intense period of time like the weekend? Babymooning - just sitting or lying with your baby skin to skin with you - for a couple of days can often 'reset the clock' and get you and her back to a calmer, more predictable pattern. But of course you will need to have someone to care for your other dd while you do this, for at least some of the time.

How does that sound?

Just to say that I have found myself in a similar cycle and shed many, many tears!

DS lost 20% birthweight so to pacify the hospital I agreed to add EBM and formula top ups as well as use nipple shields post tongue tie cut in order to stimulate her high palate.

The advise I have received over the last week has been so inconsistent and has basically contradicted all pro-breastfeeding hospital policies. My last hospital visit on Wednesday resulted in the paed suggesting I bottle feed just EBM and stop breastfeeding directly...I was so shocked as I know all too well that this would mean the end of bf which is what I am desperately trying to achieve. Dd is gaining weight but just slowly - the hcp what her to gain faster which is so frustrating. Not all children fall into the average (nappies are always wet and dirty!).

This is dc4 and I know that Dd needs to keep practising the bf as she has been so confused with so many different feeding types and I am on the edge as totally exhausted and have other children to care for.

So I have used my "instinct" and am now offering the breast (with shield) with EBM top ups when needed and have eliminated all formula (her wind was getting really bad). Even in the last 36 hours I have noticed she is feeding better on the breast because she is getting the practise she needs. I hope that as she gets bigger she will feed better and the need for top ups will be less.

I was told to feed every two hours - nightmare. I have noticed an improvement with every 3-3.5 hours as she sleeps well and then is generally hungry for the next feed. Maybe you could stretch the feeds in between with a dummy?

Anyway, just to say I am living the same as you so I utterly sympathise and wish you all the best.

Chocolate, what a difficult situation :(

Please, please, though, don't pass on advice that worked for you as if it would work for others.

Stretching the feeds out to 3- 3.5 hours and using a dummy is not likely to help most people, and I don't think would be appropriate for the OP.

Screaming and fussing as per the origninal OP is usually a sign of wind/silent reflux or tiredness. Offering more food just after a feed sometimes only makes the wind worse and often baby falls asleep for comfort as they were never hungry in the first place. Suddenly the feed has taken an age and, if two hourly feeding, merged into the next feed.
three hourly feeding is pretty standard, as is a baby wanting to suck for pleasure/comfort - I genuinely can't see what is wrong with that advice from struggling mother to struggling mother?

Because it is unlikely to help her, that's why.

This is not the thread to go into why that sort of advice is likely to compromise her supply and make things worse....but that is the case.

Wellshe already has a dummy so don't worry! She isn't all that keen on it but likes it when tired! I also use it to calm her when feeding isn't working and she's getting jnto a frenzy which is happening right at this moment!

Tik Tok, how much do you think she should be feeding at 7 weeks? It's usually 8 feeds a day, when it's expressed milk she takes 140ml which I think is a fair amount for one feed? She is putting on weight well gaining just under a pound this week. She's almost 9lb and was just under 7lb at birth.

I agree she probably needs more practice, it will be easier this weekend with DH around.

I meant the breastfeeding is not very frequent. It's good she is thriving. Info think it will help to have a knowledgable pair of eyes or at least a discussion on what's happening. Breastfeeding is not meant to be as hard as this :(

Did you have her tongue tie snipped? Sometimes they can reattach, could you make an appointment with the hospital lactation consultant to check again?

I'd just like to say bloody well done for persevering this far - I was in a similar cycle a few weeks ago with my DD and things are much better now (mostly ebf but expressing once per day and topping up in evening), but I think I'd never have managed if she wasn't my first! I found BF counsellors and my local feeding team really helpful.

Good luck whatever you decide

Just to say I have persevered with the BF attempts over the weekend but she still hasn't completed a full BF, we've had some partial ones (maybe 10-15mins) before she got really angry and screamed and I decided to give her a bottle. So I'm still expressing and I don't really know how I can carry on BF other than out her to the breast at ever feed and at least try. I am attempting more akin to skin but it's in no way easy as we are out and a bout a lot due to plans already made this weekend. This has resulted in me attempting to feed, giving up and DH giving bottle of EBM while I sit and express in the car. Not fun!

Hoping to go to a BF clinic on Tiesday, I've tried a couple of helplines and had no call backs

Also I should add when I do manage to get her to latch on she takes a few sucks and then (I think) as the milk starts to flows he starts pulling back on my nipple, she does this a few time then unlatches and cries. I then re-latch her. She is not 'falling off' rather choosing to unlatch. Any ideas why this could be? I'm wondering if my let down / the flow is super slow. I'm just expressing and before the pump was on 8 mins I hardly had a thing, then it flows quite quickly.

Have you tried expressing (hand or otherwise) to get to let down, then putting her to the breast?

Sorry - reread your last post - she pulls away when your milk lets down?

Please don't feel guilty. It's not giving up its just swapping feeding methods. There should be no guilt attached.

You are doing amazingly well! To be able to do that withe another kiddie around is pretty much supermum. You must be absolutely shattered though.

My Ds (he's 3 months) is ebf and I'm so proud of myself for keeping going with him. He does exactly the same thing youre describing- pulling off and crying over and over. He also struggles and hits my boobs quite a lot, and often needs to feed on and off and on and off which (as well as my enormous and unwieldy boobs) makes it uncomfy to feed in public. Yesterday he was feeding every 10 mins and driving me crazy! You are not alone. So, I would speak to your HV maybe and ask for her advice, but I think it could be reflux? Especially if she is arching her back and vomiting a fair bit- and that vomit it clear with white bits in it? If that's the case, your gp can prescribe you renitadine which can make a huge difference. I also think a day in bed with her just deciding not to get up and feeding her whenever she wants can restore your faith in yourself and help you tune into her natural rhythm again. And please do not beat yourself up about formula- happy mummies make happy babies, and if formula helps then that's OK. The only thing I would say is that your routine at the moment sounds exhausting and so if you can find a way of feeding her directly rather than expressing then topping up that would help. I really do hope that this helps - keep going, but if you're feeling crappy about the formula next time you're at the park try and point to the kids who've been formula fed, and those who've been breast fed. You can't tell the difference. Xxxxx

In terms of routine, I've found the EASY method helpful as set out in The Baby Whisperer. However I've only started to follow it once my ds reached 10 weeks. It's helped me feel a little less chaotic and understand when he's tired rather than hungry which has been helpful with on demand bfeeding.

When are they tired not hungry? I need to figure that one out!!!

I'm too sleep deprived to be much help but just wanted to say we were readmitted at 7 days old due to DS losing 12% of birth weight and needed treated for jaundice.
They put me on a complex three hourly routine of offering the breast which would be rejected then bottle feeding 30ml ebm then 20ml formula then a half hour on the great pump. This took up 1.5hours of every 3 hours. DS had been totally breastfed before this and was a pro at feeding. He lost the ability in the 4 days we were in hospital which I was so sad about.
When we came home I decided not to carry on with the gruelling routine and bf him only. Three days on he is bfing 13-14 times a day, several poos and plenty wet nappies and he has turned back to bfing totally, he loves it. He hasn't gained weight as quickly as they want him to but he is gaining and I'm sticking to my guns. It was all too confusing for him before.
Good luck. I can't wait until hcps butt out of our lives for good as all have conflicting advice.