Now THIS makes ME really cross

[emkana]

Friend of a friend had baby two days ago.
Baby screamed a lot the second night and the hospital told the mother to feed glucose because of danger of dehydration.
And so down she goes the slippery slope...
when she wants to breastfeed so much.
It makes me so angry that hospitals still give such bad advice in this day and age. (This is in Germany btw.)
I mean wtf?

That is terrible, how can we know all this about bf and the medical staff don't?My friend had the opposite, she got worried about her baby because after a day and a half he hadn't fed much and she was trying to bf. Rather than explain that babies don't need much in the first 48 hours (2mls my midwife told us, half a teaspoon!), when she asked to give him some formula as she was worried about him, the nurse had a go at her for it! They are so pro-breastfeeding they abuse people who ask for one formula feed!

some staff sadly are so pro breastfeeding that they dont fully explain the needs of the baby, but on the other hand there has been a huge increase in babies readmitted to hospital because of poor feeding and dehydration.

Sadly some hospitals/staff/hv etc are just not giving the right support and information to mothers and families who are trying to establish breastfeeding. They dont seem to realise that an hour or two spent talking to a new mum and answering any questions she has soon after delivery will help give mums the knowledge and confidence in their abilities to bf

sorry for the long post

I had my DS 5 weeks ago and didn't want to b/f at all. ( I struggled with my DD (3) due to lack of advice and help) and had decided to bottle feed DS. I asked for a bottle in the hospital and was told by m/w 'you should be breast feeding', when I said I didn't want to she said 'well, if you want your child to be obese go right ahead!'

Whatever my opinion is about breast feeding, I made the decision to bottle feed and didn't appreciate snidy comments from someone who should be more supportive.

I am all for breast feeding and fully support any mothers who can do it. I couldn't and got v. depressed when I was b/fing my DD and didn't want to do it again! Maybe if she had spoken to me I could have explained my decision!

FB x

What a nasty women, I think I would he been in tears. I would think about putting in a complaint about her attitude. How you feed your baby is your decision and yours alone.

bloody hell FB - my DH was bottle fed and he's as skinny as a rake handle - silly M/W. being pro BF is good, but not everyone wants to so those who do should have the support and those who don't should not be made to feel like crap about it. obese indeed.

Flumpy, write and complain!

How awful to read what midwives have been telling some of you, whether pro bf or bad bf advice .
A midwife should be 'with woman' and support her in whatever her decision is. Of course midwives should explain to women the advantages of bf'ing, but if a woman still wants to f/f despite of being aware of this than the midwife should respect and accept the woman's decision, not tell her off.
Even f/f women need some support as not all babies take to the bottle naturally and it is a m/w's duty to ensure that the woman is f/f-ing safely (i.e. preparing/sterilising correctly).

it really frustrates me when I hear of a mw being like this, they have a duty of care to all women and they are supposed to be non judgemental and support a women in her decisions, so if anyone gets this reaction from a mw remind them of that!!!

If someone tells me they want to bottle feed, I say something like like 'it is entirely your choice how you choose to feed your baby, but you are aware of the benefits of breastfeeding arent you, I do have a responsibility to ask you to make sure'

I try really hard not to offend or upset women because it is their baby and they should be allowed to choose how to feed them without feeling 'bullied' and I know this does happen, but I do have a responsibility to inform them so they are making informed choice.

Flumpy I too would write and complain - she should NOT make comments like that. Isn't it hard enough when you have just given birth without that being rammed down your neck as well What a nasty piece of work.

I would like to add one more thing I hope you dont mind.

The hospital I work at makes staff fill in an incident form every time a mother chooses to bottle feed her baby, even if the choice was made before birth, if they decide breast feeding is not for them any time a baby is given formula for the first time we are supposed to fill this form in, the hospital breast feeding cousellor then checks them all and if you have filled in to many you get called in to see her....

I have friends who have been called in and torn off a strip for it so now many of us 'forget' to fill in forms

I was told - am sure it's untrue? - that hospitals get given extra money for each mother they get to breastfeed on the ward as an incentive to try and up the breastfeeding figures generally?

Our hospital had huge figures on the wall (whole wall donated to it) saying how many mothers had breastfed their babies while in hospital. The figures are pretty skewed though as how many of them would still be breastfeeding at home? The drop out rate is quite steep at around 4-6 wks. Didn't make nice reading for any mother who was struggling with breastfeeding or decided not to as you really couldn't miss that wall!!

I have never heard of hospitals being given more money related to how many women breastfed while they were there.

I don't think the wall of figures is a useful teaching aid or even encouraging to the mothers who do breastfeed.

Helen, I think it is quite right that mothers' use of formula is documented, and that midwives are answerable for the women in their care in this way, not because they are 'responsible' for the woman's choice to use formula, but so they are aware of how the women they are looking after are feeding their babies. A record of this. and the reasons why, helps the maternity unit decide where teaching and education can be targetted.

A good midwife needs to ask why a woman is giving formula, surely - she needs to be tactful and supportive, of course. If your colleagues continue to 'forget', then I hope they're answerable for that, too

I am not aware of hospitals being given money depending on the number of mothers who breast fed although it is possible it is linked to the baby friendly initiative.

Tiktok there are many other places the mothers feeding choice is fully documented that is accessible to senior staff there is no need to 'bully' staff into filling in extra paperwork to find this information out, I know this for a fact the information is readily available in 3 seperate places. my supervisor of midwives is actually the hospital risk accessor and told me she had been able to download information on women who had changed from breast to bottle in the previous 6 montyhs and at what stage this change was most likely to happen.

A 'good' midwife does ask a mother why she wants to af but she she supports her right to choose. I am an advocate of breastfeeding but a supporter of choice.

Teaching and education as far as staff go is a day long session every 6 months and 3 monthly 2 hour sesions to update on any changes in policy etc or to advise with any problems there may be

Helen, I am not in favour of anyone being bullied - midwives or mothers!!

But you misread my post. I am sure you are right that the stats of breastfeeding and formula feeding will be recorded somewhere, but my point was that the reasons a mother might use formula will not be....and that can only come if the mother is asked. Who's to ask her? The midwife, of course.

Let's say the midwife asks and the mother says, 'my nipples are very painful and I can't bear it' - she can then suggest ways of feeding to help, and document this. Or maybe the mother says 'they told me in the hospital antenatal classes the baby needs formula top ups' (!) - that can be documented and the maternity unit needs to target some education at whowever runs the antenatal classes. Or perhaps the mother asks for a bottle because her baby won't settle and insists this is what she wants to do, because she plans to mix feed when she gets home. There's an opportunity for the midwife to talk to her about this, and to document she has done so, and that it is mother's choice to mix feed. On looking at the documentation, the people in charge of infant feeding might see an opportunity here to support midwives in explaining to mothers the drawbacks of mix feeding....I could go on. But I imagine this is why you are required to document formula use in this sort of detail.

It's also important for midwives to support their colleagues and not give conflicting advice (the bane of the maternity unit!). Imagine Midwife A working hard all day to support a mother's breastfeeding. Then Midwife B comes on at night, and the mother at that point decides to give a bottle of formula. If Midwife B doesn't document why this was done, and her own response to it, Midwife A will feel let down and disappointed. If this happens a lot, she can then tell the manager 'every time I come on duty after Midwife B has been on nights, the mothers I worked with are all formula feeding. Can we work on this?' Midwife B may not be very good at supporting breastfeeding - or maybe she is brilliant. But if she doesn't document, then Midwife A will think she doesn't care.

Hope you see what I mean now

I know paper work differs in every unit, having seen the differences for myself but where I work it is always(or should be) fully documented in a womans notes when a woman decides to bottle feed, the reasons she has given for doing this and the advice given by the mnidwife, this information is also routinely on the discharge information a copy of which goes in both the hospital notes, and the mothers own hand held notes and is also on the computer. Again not sure how it works in most units but we always give a full handover of all the women at every change of staff, this includes information about how mothers and babies are, how they are feeding how its going etc, any changes with feeding are always reported at these hand overs and the reasons for the change. So there are plenty of ways which information is recorded and passed on. If this information is not documented in a womans notes then rightly so a midwife should be taken to task, I dont know of any midwife who doesnt complete the notes.

The paperwork which is often not filled in is a clinical incident form, I object to filling in a form that is designed to document 'near misses' when the information is available elsewhere, it is not an appropriate form for it

OK, helen, thanks for the further detail.

sorry tiktok I dont think I was clear in my post