what is the best way to talk about breastfeeding antenatally?

[tiktok]

There is an idea that discussions about feeding choices in the antenatal class or elsewhere before the birth 'make' women feel distressed and guilty if they subsequently don't breastfeed, or don't breastfeed for as long as they wanted to.

Are these discussions responsible for these feelings? Or do they make them worse? Or do women's feelings of disappointment and sadness get turned in on themselves, so they blame themselves, when other circumstances/people/events have been the reason behind the use of formula.

What do you want from antenatal discussions about feeding?

I would have liked honesty from mine!! The potential for breastfeeding to be difficult was glossed over which made me feel like a complete failure when it wasn't easy.

I think hearing from "real" women with a variety of "real" experiences would have been good, as would actually seeing someone breastfeeding a little baby.

I only went to the hospital antenatal classes, which did not really cover breastfeeding, although I did skive a few, so maybe I missed it.

The hospital did offer a bfeeding workshop, which I found helpful, although tbh I can't remember what they covered (it was 9 years ago!) The one really useful bit that sticks in my mind is that they got us to practise with those quite life-like newborn baby dolls, showing us that with a newborn you actually have to hold its head and bring the head towards you. I remember that practice with the (plastic) baby coming back to me as I tried to get dd1 to latch on. They made us practice different positions, too, which was useful later.

I agree with Soupy that getting real breastfeeding women in to come and feed their babies in the presence of the group and answer questions would have been helpful.

With regard to the pain, I think it would have been helpful to have mention of cracked nipples and how to avoid it. I only managed to avoid really agonising bleeding nipples the 2nd and 3rd times because I worked out for myself that it was important to vary the feeding position in the early days to prevent a particular bit getting too sore.

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ditto SoupDragon.

Also to have been told that mixed feeding was possible - not just breast OR bottle

Also to discuss the mechanics of bottle feeding in case you need to. We had to buy bottles, steriliser, formula all in a rush in a small village on a weekend, then learn how to use them and make up a feed - second nature now of course, but at the time it was a stressor too far.

I did go into an antenatal class with ds aged about 9 weeks. Had not had the best of starts sleepy baby after ventouse delivery, jaundice, hospital bottle fed him used shields then much later had lumpiness and ds slow weight gain which I was still experiencing. tbh I think the midwife was a bit dismayed by the picture I painted, although I was quite positive about how it was worthwhile to persist and the need for time to both get used to it. The mums-to-be were a rather passive bunch had already been there an hour already and seemed a bit disinterested. only one asked a question as I recall which seemed a bit sad. I was not convinced they'd taken much in anyway.

Among my NCT antenatal group there was one who had decided well ahead to bottlefeed with the rest of us thinking of giving b'feeding a go, which we did to varying extents. She felt quite isolated by the information given on feeding as it was very one sided and that applied to both NCT and NHS classes. Am I correct in thinking that the midwives cannot offer information on bottlefeeding ?

Midwives can and should give info about formula feeding to anyone who asks for it. What they cannot do (if their hospital is Baby friendly) is to do a demo of making up a bottle to an antenatal class or group of new mothers. This makes sense because this is not a safe or effective way to teach making up a bottle (been shown in research how dodgy it is) - it's actually best to do it one to one in the mum's own kitchen, really. Showing a whole class how to do it is not protective of breastfeeding (which is the more difficult choice in our society) as it sort of assumes they are all going to choose to use formula.

I asked my midwife privately about formula and she refused to discuss it with me and said they weren't allowed to recommend any formula.

Well, I didn't go to any antenatal groups but searched the net and read books about breastfeeding which I did find useful. I wish I'd had more support in hospital though for breastfeeding, instead of gangs of nurses pushing formula at me. The breastfeeding counsellor at Kings was lovely and reassuring about colostrum being fine for the first few days. I think all women should be given a bit of paper with a breastfeeding support number on it to call when things get difficult. My friend was a breastfeeding demonstrator at Kings. Her baby was the biggest boy in the world - exclusively breastfed until 6months (ie no weaning, no formula) and though he was the size of a house, she lost two stone off her pre-preg weight and was half the size she was beforehand - so I think she must have been pretty inspirational.
I got my formula info off the back of the tin and honestly found that entirely adequate.

I think maybe if people said to reluctant or tenatative breastfeeders, "Well, why not give it a try at least - you can mix feed and if you really hate it you can give up, but why not try a bit of colostrum and see if you enjoy it..." that might help? It's what I've said to people in RL sometimes and they've not taken offence. Or do others think that's patronising?

Personally, I think mothers find something to feel guilty about and all us successful br'feeders just end up feeling guilty about something else.

Are you suggesting, Tiktok, that it would be better if HVs went out and did one-to-one demos of how to make up a bottle for every pregnant woman?

MWs in our area did antenatal class demos on how to bottlefeed.
This was right after a local baby had died from formula being made up improperly. The local MWs saw it as their duty to make sure we all had had at least one demo to hopefully avoid the same mistakes.
One of my friends said that she was intensely grateful for the class demos; she was determined to breastfeed but had all sorts of problems. When she finally turned to mixed feeding she was still very exhausted (rough pregnancy + emergency C-section + usual new parent exhaustion), she was extremely grateful for the demos because all the instructions and warnings came back to her and were very helpful. This is a woman with Oxbridge degrees in biochemistry, btw, including a PhD.

Grumpyzebra, i'd heard things like that too about formula being mixed wrong, that's why i was asking a few questions, although i also found the back of the carton adequate!!

maybe there should be a bottlefeeding support line for after the birth so that antenatal teachers could build up women's confidence before the birth re bf but so that there was instant advice available when needed
Worst moment for me was when mixed feeding a few weeks ago, I'd sent dp to the pub for a break and was just thinking 'ds is hungry, I need to sterilise some more bottles, we've none left' when there was a total power cut for my area... cue frantic leafing through my motley parenting library by candlelight to find out how to sterilise without a microwave. thank God for Christopher Green and a gas hob. urrgh.

great to be honest about bf (I think 'how not to be a perfect mother' is the only book that tells it anything like it really is) but i do think that too much emphasis on bottles antenatally starts to knock confidence that you can do it which is vital imo. oh well.

I don't think that even the possibility that breastfeeding might not be instantly successful or painfree was mentioned at my classes. It might have been easier to cope with if I'd something other than that rose-tinted spectacles view to compare against. (And being told afterwards, that the latch was fine, so "it doesn't hurt", when I was literally crying with pain certainly didn't help).

Also NOT being told that if I ever gave ds a bottle he'd never accept the breast again would have been another good message. Not true as it turned out, and in the end I mixed fed ds until he was six months old, but I could easily have given up with the breastfeeding completely when after weeks of never going more than half an hour from the end of one feed to the start of another we eventually got to the point where dh gave ds formula (without my knowledge, exhaustion had finally got the better of me by then). Mixed feeding never gets mentioned, but surely it could work for lots of people who would otherwise switch entirely to bottles.

It seems that it is a very sensitive subject and no matter how things are worded someone will read something int it and take offence. How should it be expressed?
If you feel strongly about advice for bottlefeeding then why dont you be a volunteer like the bfcs rather than feeling guilty about what is said to you?
I am lucky and bf ds until he was 4 and am feeding dd at 6 months. I've had to breastfeed in front of a room of bottlefeeders many times and felt little awkward at doing so. Not because they may feel guilty just because it is different from the majoirity.
Ihave had crap advice from mws and hvs and would not have been able to bf had i followeed their advice.
If you make a decision based on your circumstances then why feel guilty about it?
If you dont like what someone says about bottlefeeding then ignore it. I have ignored many comments about my breastfeeding and could easily have felt guilty. Beliebe me breastfeeding doesnt make you a perfect motheer!
I feel guilty for lots of things as a mother and even felt guilty when giving up when ds was 4 as Iknew several people who self wened at a later age and ds didnt self wean.
You're damned if you do and damned if you dont.
excuse onehanded typing

I feel strongly about correct info on breastfeeding so would like to be a bf. If you feel strongly about info on bottlefeeding then why dont you offer your time freely also. Lets face it the gov aint going to!

Reality is what people need.

I went to a weekend long course before DS was born where they refused to discuss anthing 'negative' - they made the women who wanted to bottlefeed put there hands up and basically humiliated them. They didn't discuss any breastfeeding problems - like really really painful nipples, blocked ducts, infections etc or using nipple shields or breast shells. They didn't discuss nipple size or shape. (Mine are quite small/flat - I always thought they were perfect ).

I have heard of a lot of young women here who think that if they breastfeed the asthetic look of their boobs will be ruined for life - I tell them, if I get the chance, that I believe they are affected from the minute you fall pregnant - regardless of feeding choice (hope I am right). Anyway I think that this should be openly discussed as well.

I had a really tough time establishing breastfeeding for premmie jaundiced baby and was very close to giving up several times. Thank god for good private midwife and supportive DH. But no doubt I would have felt like an utter failure if I had given up. After MNing I think I will have a much more balanced view of things a 2nd time around.

I saw mt cil in desparate pain trying to bf a baby. Her baby had been given formula by the hospital and they were too short staffed to help her bf. they told her to express but not how.
She did eventually express some milk for a few weeks but the baby never got the hang of breastfeeding. She feels a real failure despite there being nothing she could have done. By the time she left the hospital her baby had had 20 bottles.

hmmm, but otoh, one of my colleagues is pg at the moment and has already decided not to bf. i suspect she isn't v. well informed about it. i suspect it is people like her that the enthusiasts are trying to get at.

though i also feel far too rosy a picture of bf is generally painted! like it is easier. er, no, not when each bf takes an hour and each bottle feed takes 15 mins. nearly 4hrs diff given back to a busy day. not that bf isn't better but i get irritated by some of the too rosy comments.

In answer to the original question I assumed bf would be very easy with ds. Our classes never suggested otherwise and because i believed this i never bothered researching it ir reading up about it. It was a shock todiscover that baby didnt just suck and milk flow.

I did read on another thread that someone questioned why the closeness, snuggliness etc of breastffeding wasnt discussed in antenatal classes. For that person, they wanted to know this when making their choice.

here

As a first-time mum to be, I realised that bf was impt for the baby but I knew nothing about it. Until a couple of months ago, I thought the baby latched on straight after birth, got tons of milk and er.... that was it!

Of course, it seems bf is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more complicated than that and I know there is no way I would stick at it if I hadn't had the REALISTIC advice and stories from this site. Even my sister didn't fill me in on the pitfalls of bf. She said that she was worried that if she had initially told me how it really was, it would put me off. Of course, after hearing about virtually no milk for a few days, let down pain, mastitis, thrush etc my initial reaction was - no bloody way!

But now I feel that I am armed with tons of information on how to cope - and where to get help if I'm struggling. BF counsellors - I didn't know they exsisted!

I'm definitely not one of those 'I loved my 3 week labour and torn perineum' women, but I strongly feel that BF is one of the best things I can do for my baby when it arrives.

It's taken visits to this site pretty much every day to arm myself with all this info. Ante-natal BF info and discussion, I think, is absolutely vital. When you're knackered after birth, I'm thinking that maybe you're just too tired to take it all in.

sorry about the length of this..

Good post highlander. Iwas under the same impression as well.

Angeliz mentioned about her midwife not being able to recommend a formula - that's right, though she can talk about making up feeds and the other practicalities. She can't honestly recommend a formula - don't know how she could, as the independent, researched information she would need to do this just isn't there. All formulas have to comply with statutory formulations. Beyond that, it's all what manufacturers say.

Grumpyzebra, HVs should show each woman who asks or indicates she might quite like to know, how to make up a bottle feed, yes. Would be a helpful use of their time, I would think.

THANKYOU, that was all i was trying to say. Once my midwife knew i wasn't breast feeding then it was as if feeding was a non subject. That's why i agreed with Aloha, (albeit in a biting way-sorry), the info is on the back of the box, but it would have been nice to get any extra info available.
I feel i have done the best for my baby and i do not usually get involved in these discussions but it's not all actually about guilt.
I just feel that i understand that it's best to breastfeed if you can/want to but the information should also be available if you decide not to which, lets face it, many do!