Breastfeeding - need some help /support

[snowydrops]

Hello, I posted on here's few days ago and found the support brilliant so I'm back again basically to stop me giving up BF as i seem to be running from one problem to another!!

DD will be one week tomo. Born by ELCS. Feeding started off ok, colostrum came and I thought she was latching ok. I have big boobs / nipples and she is quite small and I've been worried at times she doesn't 'get enough jn'. In hospital various people (mainly volunteers and the odd midwife) had a quick look and said all looked well. I was sore but not in agony.

My milk supply seems ok, with DD1 I struggled with supply due to illness, recurrent thrush and so in the end expressed and combi fed for 6 months I am very keen to avoid this again.

Soooo since being home four days ago nipples have more and more sore. Today I have only been able to feed from one side (expressed the other) because it's cracked and bleeding. I know have a slight crack on the 'ok' side and it absolutely kills to feed.

I have shown my midwife (twice) who says her latch is good. I vary the position she uses. One thing I have noticed is her latch is incredibly strong, more so than DD1 ever was, it's likes vacuum in fact I can sometimes struggle to remove her from the breast using the finger under lip method. Could it just be her latch is really strong?!

Tonight I've also started to feel like I've now got thrush, my whole breast guests, nipples are burning / on fire after feeding and expressing.

I've tried nipple shields and she didn't like them / I couldn't really get the hang of them.

I can go to a clinic tomorrow but I just don't know what to do and was hoping someone could at least tell me they've been through something similar and got it sorted....I am soooo keen to BF (even if ends up partially!) but cannot deal with this amount of pain

My dd was tongue tied and had a bad latch but had an incredibly strong suck so still gained weight really well - but I ended up with cracked nipples too.

I think that any trauma (cracking/bleeding) is a sign that the latch isn't right. There is a way to encourage a deeper latch, but I can't remember the name of it now - hopefully someone else will be more helpful.

I've not been through anything that bad, but have you been using lanolin on your nipples? That helped me a lot through the early days - apply it religiously! Also I found (savoy) cabbage leaves down my bra really soothing! Have you got a local peer support group or breastfeeding cafe you could go to to get the latch checked again? Also try eating some live yogurt and cutting down on the sugar & yeast in your diet - it's supp to help with the thrush. Make sure you are keeping your nipples dry - change pads regularly and giving them some air from time to time to help with the thrush too.

Found this linked to on kellymom which is the thing I was talking about above.

Sounds like there is a possibility of tongue tie to me. Any clicking sounds? Lipstick shaped nipple? Sliding off nipple?

Otherwise you could be holding the baby too high. Have you tried sitting with no bra on and noting where your breast naturally lies? Then latching on there? Or google laid back nursing?

Good luck!

Try the exaggerated latch technique aka the flipple can really help if the baby is having difficulties getting a good latch for whatever reason

Even if the latch looks right, if it is hurting you it is not. I was told my DDs latch looked good, but was in agony. I think it was too shallow. (I also have quite big boobs). Try googling shallow latch. I found this video helpful- I watched it every time I katched her on for ages

Flipple

But you may find other videos More helpful, there are loads in youtube. I'd there a feeding clinic you can attend with specialist nurses? There was one every weekday morning in this city, but I guess it depends where you are. You also should get an appointment for thrust treatment. Remember to change your brestpads after every feed to reduce the risk of thrush. It is soooo painful. I can sympathise.

Good luck.

Sorry x post!

Lansinoh cream. Get some tonight. I was in such pain, I actually had to grip the arm of the chair and brace myself everytime Ds latched on. It was excruciating, burning, toe curling. Them my dear MiL brought me this cream (other makes probably available, I didn't check!). Applied liberally right after feeding and it is amazing. Can't help with the thrush though, was too distracted by tight stitches to notice anything else

Should have said I use lanisoh every feed and she's had checks for tongue tie. I've even looked myself and it appears normal.

I've just attempted the flipple, still hurting (feeding now) but less so and could be due to damage already there. DD seems to be happy with the feed but often does in night feed (much less fussing!)

Thanks for all the tips. I'll be going to a clinic tomo too

Worth trying the shields again? I found them invaluable to provide a bit of protection for me and to help DS get a good latch

Yes I could definitely give the shields another go.

My son has tongue tie. His latch was checked and checked, and apparently it was perfect. I knew something wasn't right. I kept going back.

Eventually at 4 months I asked for them to check his tongue. "Oh yes" they said "he has tongue tie". I got it cut but it wasn't much fun and to be honest at that late stage he'd learnt how to feed badly/wrong latched so I gave up sooner than I'd have liked.

I had thrush like symptons too. He had a strong suck and I had oversupply so he was able to get just about enough, but I knew something wasn't right.

Definately get his tongue properly checked .

Thank you, I'll definitely get the tongue checked again too!

I had a lot of terrible nipple pain and cracking during the first 4-5 weeks when my daughter latched on. It was awful - I was on painkillers for my c-section but aaargh the moment of latching, the drawing out of the nipple, was atrocious. I used to pump and feed with a bottle just to get some respite. A glass of red wine in the evening was also a big help!

Her latch was a bit shallow and tongue tie had been addressed. Basically it all just got better by itself as her mouth got bigger, and one day every feed was painless. I am still bfing now at nearly 8 months.

Many HVs and midwives (and those mums lucky enough to be pain-free) seem to trot out the "if it's hurting, you're doing it wrong" line but I think lots of women experience pain to start with. It does get better!

Yeah I should have said- that is the difficult thing- your nipples will hurt at the moment even when you get it right as they are badly cracked. If it feels better that is good though.sorry it is so frustrating. You will get there. I was banging my feet off the floor and crying whilst she fed. However at 18 mo she is still bf.

No specific advice here but I wanted to echo mupperoon's last paragraph - I struggled to BF for weeks thinking that I must've been doing it wrong as it hurt (as that's what everyone tell you). I was incredibly stressed about it, constantly Googling for answers, trying new positions and going to clinics for help.

But looking back, I realise that in my case the pain/ grazing/ soreness was actually just the two of us getting used to each other. I wasn't doing anything 'wrong.' DS was getting enough milk - it was just that we were both still learning. One day, a few weeks in, it suddenly clicked into place and no more pain. We'd managed to fall into a rhythm with the BF and we're still going 10 months on.

Looking back, I wish I'd been able to go with the flow (apologies for the terrible pun!). The stressing about the fact that it hurt was worse than the soreness itself, IYSWIM.

Obviously this may not apply to you but thought I'd share. Hoping you sort the thrush-like symptoms too

Remember that you can use Lansinoh before each feed as well as after to act as a kind of barrier and prevent further damage.

oooh good luck tomorrow at the clinic - I'd really recommend it.

Sounds very like my DS' tongue tie - he "hoovered" the milk out with force because his tongue couldn't do the wavy massage thing. Went through weeks of back and fore on it, but if I had to do it all again with a tongue tied baby I'd press them to do a frenulotomy (little snip of the tie) ASAP instead of sending me away to try another few days of agony at a time. He eventually had the snip at 8w and it was magic! Went through thrush in the early days too - that too did eventually pass.

Makes me so mad that HCPs go "oh well the baby has tongue tie but they're gaining weight fine so that's ok" - what about the woman's pain??!!!

hope all goes well and this passes soon for you

Just to add your experience sounds very similar to mine. My first baby had tongue tie so that explained the cracked bleeding nipples, but when it happened recently with dd there was definitely no tongue tie. I think my nipples were even worse that with my tongue tied ds and it was very disheartening. But it turned out the cracks were infected so ask your clinic to swab you today to check for infection and thrush. Then chase the results! It was only when I got mastitis that they said "oh your swab shows infection".

I echo pp about using lansinoh before feeds too. Try kellymom For more tips.

Just to add after two courses of antibiotics feeding was pain free at 4 weeks, nipples healed completely by 6 weeks, and now at 10 weeks it's easy.
it's so hard in the first few weeks

Thank you for all these tips. I am determined to stick it out!!

I think the cracks in one boob could definitely be infected. I've got a docs appo today and I have already applied thrush cream (had the correct one already in the house) and its eased but I know DD will need treating too. I have tried the 'flipple' and it was less painful.

I think I may suffer with pain for a few weeks anyway...as she has such a strong latch and I did with DD1 and it eased around 3-4 wks from memory.

I am applying lanisoh before now too and it's helping

Thank goodness for mumsnet!!

Cool water wash + Lansinoh after every feed. If you suspect thrush (or you want to prevent it this time around) have plenty of yogurt or probiotic supplements as part of your diet.

Just don't give up, you'll figure out ways to manage minor setbacks like this.

Agree with Dragons about looking for signs of tongue tie. It is easily divided if you get it diagnosed and done quickly. Lansinoh cream shouldn't be used if you have thrush as it is a perfect environment for it. Breastfeeding network have a thrush leaflet.

When I was on antibiotics I took a strong pro biotic to avoid thrush. Called optibac I think. Worth asking in a health shop for something

flipple! I never knew it was a proper technique. I had very similar probs with ds1 op. Flipple and persistance (and a vat of lansinoh) paid off and I fed him for 2 lovely years. I hope you get it sorted. Xx

I now got cream for the thrush which is definitely easing but have blisters on both nipples now!! So damn sore. DD chomped down on my nipple so hard yesterday it instantly bled and then blistered. I'm still feeding on it (in a lot of pain?) and expressing the other side but how can I help the blisters?? I'm using the lanisoh and the thrush cream but I guess the pretty much constant feeding (10 feeds yesterday) is taking its toll.