Bf issues 16 day old, help before I quit!

[Neptune44]

Hi MN, im new :)

My DD1 has been ebf since birth, we had a rocky start with latch probs and mastitis within the first week (not opening wide enough - pinched nipples) (blame myself for coming home too soon thinking I was fine after c section...) she latches on fine one side, sometimes doesnt open wide enough but getting better and not wedged anymore with the help of feeding advisor. The other side nipple is quite flat and she has only ever been on properly once without a nipple shield, i hate the shield, milk leaks down us no matter how good a seal i get and it is just a faf - will she ever be able to latch on to my flatter side?? I keep trying.

The other issue is the length of time she takes to feed - 3-5 hours per feed, sometimes just one breast - is this normal?? (Plus loads of dirty nappies inbetween) I always make sure she 'empties' one breast but its hard to tell...she does get sleepy but i remove some clothing and tickle her yet she still goes on for hours. Then i change her nappy again and she awakens and back to feeding..

She was above her birth weight at 10 days old which i am so happy with considering the start we had - however unsupportive family members say i am overfeeding her...! Does.not.help.

I am getting serious cabin fever and feeling down, really need to get out and about but should i just hope she falls asleep at the breast and go?? When she wakes she just wants the breast again. I am nervous about feeding in public incase i am stuck for hours. Will she have gotten what she needs if i try to shorten the length? I am so confused and fed up and not enjoying it at all, the night feed marathons are the worst and thats when i sit for hours and think about quitting but really want to keep going with the right advice and encouragement....

Ok one thing at a time

Congratulations on your baby! You are doing a fantastic job especially given that you are recovering from a c-section and mastitis.

You can't overfeed a baby. She may overflow occasionally. Mine did and it was pretty gross but didn't last long. At 16 days she's still learning how much she needs.

As far as I'm aware the breast never fully empties. Just make sure you change sides rregularly e.g. every feed. After several hours!! It will be as empty as it's going to get.

You obviously really want to breastfeed so go with what works initially. I know it feels like forever right now but at 16 days you are both still learning what works. Keep on with the nipple shield if it works and occasionally try without. My first started out that way and they can transition to the boob. Shields are gross though aren't they

Again it's only a few days so try not to be in such a rush to get out. If you really feel cabin fevery can someone drive you somewhere nice with a picnic so you can sit in the car but still be out? Or go to a friends house where you will be able to sit out a long feed?

She's definitely getting what she needs if she's regained weight.

Trying to get her really sleepy and then carrying her could help her to drop off again. Again keep trying this as being trapped for hours sounds very claustrophobic.

She will get more efficient at feeding and it won't always take so long i promise. You are doing an amazing job xx

For the flat nipple what really helped me was breast shells - like hard plastic boob covers you shove in your bra with a hole your nipple points into. It somehow encourages the nipple to point out more, and also stops a sore nipple rubbing on your bra. Definitely worth looking into it.

Is there a local baby group or breastfeeding cafe? Then you could go out but still know that you will feel comfortable feeding if necessary?
Does baby like the pram? I went for regular walks with the pram and baby would often drop off and it got me some fresh air which really made a difference to my mood, especially after a sleepless night. I had a really sturdy old-fashioned pram that someone lent me which was handy for leaning on after the C-section!

Or if you are feeling strong enough to use a sling, that might enable you to potter about doing things in the house with both hands free?

Also if possible focus on what you have achieved in the past two weeks.

Major surgery
Looking after a newborn
Establishing breastfeeding
Coping with sleeplessness
Finding a solution to the flat nipple
Overcoming mastitis

You are doing SO WELL!
You're managing to nurse despite difficulties that stop many women

You will find your way through this time and will be so proud of yourself (and rightly so)

Finally if you decide to stop (i can really hear that you don't want that but are feeling desperate) you won't have failed your daughter.
She's had the colostrum (liquid gold) which is a wonderful gift from you. And she won't be harmed, neither will your bond with her if you stop.
Please update us.
So many of us have been where you are now and want to support you.

Thank you so much for your encouraging words. I will look into nipple shells :) I do need to keep reminding myself that it's early days and I have overcome some Hurdles. I always feel at my lowest after the night shift but do enjoy the day time. I feel confident going out for a wee stroll, so will do this to help with my mood.

It's encouraging to hear that this will get better, I will keep telling myself that its a short time of hard work for a lifetime of benefits for my little girl. Maybe I need to stop putting pressure on myself and just go with the flow, it feels good to vent!

There is a bf support group in my area that I will pop along to next week, hopefully I will make some friends with other mums too. Thank you all for lifting my spirits I will keep you posted xx

I don't think feeding for 3-5 hours is normal, no. Apart from anything else the baby really needs to sleep and should only be awake 45 min to 1 hour max.
It could also lead to thrush.
Is she actually feeding that whole time?

She is on and off for that length of time, she usually nods off when feeding after a bit then wakes when I change and wind her after a bit and looks hungry again and cries when she goes down and we go round in circles for hours. Eventually she will go to a deep sleep in her basket for 4 hours max (was told not to leave her any longer) She is quite windy, so maybe I should be winding her for longer? Any tips to break cycle?

OP, I take my hat off to you. You're doing incredibly well. You have superhuman patience and bladder control to be managing 3-5 hour feeds! I used to do an hour on each side with DD and be nearly screaming with impatience at the end of it.

How can I put this tactfully? Your baby doesn't need to feed for that length of time. She will love it, but she doesn't need it. It won't do her any harm as I bet she's suckling in her sleep a lot. But it won't be doing your mental health any good! I learned with baby no 2 that it is OK to stop before a baby is ready to stop. If you had a toddler, 3 hour feeds would be out. Most second babies learn very quickly to feed quickly because their mother only has 15 minutes before having to leap up and stop the toddler from destroying something. I would suggest cutting it down a bit, to a bit more you-friendly length of time. Maybe try an hour to start with - after an hour, hand her off to your DH or someone, and go for a pee/shower/cup of tea and leave him to cuddle her for a bit. Chances are she'll fall asleep quite happily. Good luck!

Ah, feck: flat nippples. I had these. Had, note: no longer.

DC1 only started to feed when the midwife actually rammed her mouth onto my nippled and held it there till I let down, at which point she started to suck. Have you tried swapping your baby to your flatter nipple after your milk has let down? There's a purpose to sucking then, so she might just get the idea. In any case, if all else fails, you can ebf a baby off just one boob (friend of mine did this, three times).

It won't hurt if she's fallen asleep after 45mins to ease her off the boob, if only to give your nipples a break. If her nappy's not dirty, just lie her down and see if she carries on sleeping. The fact that she's gaining weight should reassure you that she's not going to starve... And you can't overfeed a bf baby, so ignore that background noise.

You're doing really well: bf after a c-section can't be much fun. It WILL get better: you will become more confident as your baby grows. You know you're making enough milk, and just knowing that removes a lot of other worries.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar: MehsMum
Thank you
This is great to know!, and yes she is snoozing and feeding at same time so probably just suckling for comfort. I don't know where I have found the patience, Netflix helps. Iam worried about my mental health which is why I was at quitting point last night. I was afraid I would be denying her food as mw told me to react to rooting...and also said she would settle down at some point but it doesn't feel normal having such long feeds, we would be housebound. I feel more confident in taking her off after an hour max now thanks :)
will try the flat nipple side next time after let down

Neptune - you and your pfb are amazing! 4hours asleep in her basket - don't tell my DD; she would be sooooo jealous as her pfb is 6 weeks and she thinks it a miracle if he sleeps for 2 hours in his basket. He is getting better though and so will your baby - 16 days is very young. Do try to get to the feeding clinic were you will meet other new mums and find out that your experience is normal.

You aren't denying her food, never think that!

Both my babies would look fast asleep until you tried to put them in the basket, grr! I think it's just something that they have to get used to, sleeping somewhere that's not on you, and without a comforting nipple.

Re going out: many babies either sleep right through trips out (especially if you walk a bit with her in pram/sling first), or else are fascinated by the big wide world and just want to stare at things. Yy to going to a breastfeeding group, but in general you just have to go about your life as you want it to be, and take the baby along. You'll find that you don't have to feed on short trips, and you and your baby will get the hang of a quick pit stop feed if you want to go out for longer. You'll have good days and bad ones, just as with everything else - if you have a bad trip (as it were), don't let it put you off!

I also know someone who fed her third child exclusively from 1 breast due to damage to the other. I don't know about flat nipples, though. Hope MehsMum's advice helps there.

OP you are doing an amazing job!! I have a five day old And am also struggling and what you're going through has motivated me to do more!

Firstly I don't think 3-5hours is normal. As someone else says baby needs to sleep too. Perhaps she's using the nipple as comfort?? Dd1 did this a bit with me and feeds were really long (1-1.5hrs) and it drove me mad. I was dead against dummies but in the end gave her one at two weeks and it completely solved the problem!!

Also it sounds like night is the worst, if you are really at the end of your tether would you consider expressing during the night and getting your partner (if you have) to give that milk to a bottle which will be much faster? It's personal preference of course but may give you the strength to carry on with it (and some rest)

Good luck!!

Flat nipple- instead of shield or shell get yourself a Lanisnoh nipple everter. Draws out nipple so baby able to latch easier. Much less fafd than shield. Worked a dream for me.

Is there a La Leche League branch near you? Try and get a hold of their book 'the womanly art of breastfeeding' the title sounds quite hippy airy fairy but dont let it put you off, it's a breastfeeding bible! The LLL leaders are brilliant too.
I definitely agree with going to a breastfeeding group - great to get confidence bf in public. Don't worry about having to unlatch your baby, some babies would be permenantly attached if they weren't removed by mum!
Be kind to yourself and think about everything you have achieved. X

Thank you all for the great advice and confidence. Ive got the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding book actually, a friend suggested i get it whilst pg - will refer to it again.. Last night we went to a supermarket after a (shortish!) feed and it was great we had a really good night, only up for an hour rather than 4! Because we had a short evening feed DD fed better at the next feed, max 1 hour then half an hour to settle - just kept trying and trying and she went down for a good few hours and then had a 45 min feed next and went down to sleep after some soothing in 15 mns (without nipples!) what a difference. Im sooooo glad i posted on here as i would still be settling her through hours of feeding and going on mw/hv advice and hoping she would 'grow out of it' looking back i think i may have been putting her back on the breast at windy signs...eep but she may have had some cluster feeds too. I feel much more confident about things now and determined to get this cracked especially knowing she (and i) needs her sleep!

Well done Neptune!!!

You are right in the eye of the storm at the moment and for most people if you can get through the first few weeks bf becomes so much easier. My DS is four months now and I can't believe how easy it is , when your just off the starting block it seems so hard so good on you for giving it a good go. Looking back it seems like it was hard just to get through the next hour I really had to take it one feed at a time. I used to think just one more feed then I'm giving up just get through the next one. Before you know it its four months and bf is the amazing experience everyone told you it would be. I found my local breastfeeding support group really helpful so definitely give them a try.

Hang in there you sound like your doing great. Don't forget when you can if DP or someone around to take half an hour for yourself, have a bath, have a cuppa, take a nap!
Good luck

Interesting to know about the one breast ebf! I will try the shell and everter, im determined to get rid of the gross shield too!

You are doing fabulously. I found getting outhelped me as I too found myself stuck in the sofa in a feed, poo, sleep, netflix cycle. I found it gave structure to our day... I would feed dd before we left, both boobs then head out (anywhere!) the pram where she would nod off.
Really hope it gets easier. the good thing is it doesn't last long... before you know it you will be stressing either to blw or puree wean!

You sound much happier, Neptune. You will probably have ups and downs for a good few weeks yet (all of one went through a stage where they wanted MORE and I found myself feeding for 40 mins out of every hour-90mins for two or three days) but so long as you're getting some sleep and your baby is growing, you shouldn't feel completely overwhelmed.

Suddenly there will come a point where you wonder why you ever found it difficult: once it clicks into place it's one of the nicest and easiest bits of motherhood (well, I thought so...)

Its so nice to know I'm not alone in this situation, sleep deprivation and being housebound for the last while had left me feeling at breaking point and lonely. I'm heading to the local bf group on Wednesday and feel much more confident in the weeks to come. Thanks everyone for the encouragement

Oh good! Glad you're feeling better! Hope the bf group is fun and has nice biscuits.

Thought i would give an update: DD is now 7 weeks old and we are doind fab with bf after reading all the posts and realising that she NEEDED to sleep, i took control and got to know when she was finished a feed and found what settled her instead of the boob (swaddle dummy bouncy chair) it also turns out that she has silent reflux and was using me/milk as comfort and then would scream inbetween feeds and get over tired and want to suckle to sleep, poor thing. So with the reflux being treated and supply established, we are doing so much better. she naps through the day and sleeps for a good stretch at night.... also weaning off nipple shields as she is bigger now, she has no problem with taking the boob but i still get a little sore sometimes, so i still use them now and then to avoid nipple damage. I dont feel scared to go out now as i know that she has had a feed and she will be fine! A lot of it was confidence/anxiety which MN has helped brilliantly with, its great to let it out and read ecouraging words when you are going through the worst part. So to anyone who comes across this post, have confidence and know that it really does get so much better after about 6 weeks just like everyone on here says (check for silent reflux though) i am proud that i carried on and can say that i enjoy it now thank you all