Does gaviscon/gripe water/colief/calpol etc compromise the "virgin gut"

[YouMaySayImADreamer]

I am aiming to ebf my DS2 for 6months and then continue alongside food as I did my DS1. With DS1 I did quite a lot of reading about the benefits of ebf and the "virgin gut" but by this time he had already been of colief due to colic and had had calpol for teething. DS2 is 5 weeks and showing signs of ruflux so I have been advised to try gaviscon before going down other avenues but I don't want to ebf only to pump him full of medicines and "ruin" it. So just wondering if anyone knows whether medicines "count" as it were.

Dont want to offend anyone who hasnt ebf or has given medicines etc by the way as this is just a personal feedfing choice based on research I have read about. My DS1 has eczema despite being ebf and we have allergies in the family so I am keen to lower the risks for DS2.

Not sure about gaviscon but infacol is not digested - it passes through as hair/dust etc children swallow once they start chewing their hands and grabbing would. It's not the same as food too early at all.

I'm ebf due to allergies etc and I think medicine is different to food.

Also unfortunately I know several ebf children with allergies. Genetics etc play a part so we can't always prevent things by following rules.
its highly unlikely some colic medication caused your child's condition.

Thanks squizita when you put it like that it does seem silly of me to think that! And obviously if the answer was yes if be looking for some alternative pain relief or remedy by the way.

Interestingly ive just read that Calpol has been heavily linked to eczema so I may just avoid this. Still really interested in the answer to this question though.

I don't think so, but I am no expert.

I discussed this a little bit with a gp that I went to see when DS was 5 months old. He had developed a lump on his eyebrow and the gp wanted to prescribe antibiotics. Ds showed no sign of infection. I told the doctor that he was EBF and I was aiming for a virgin gut and I really didn't want to destroy his gut flora for no reason. So we settled on a course of ibuprofen.

I got quite hung up on the Virgin gut thng and it did make me a bit, I don't know, neurotic? Or maybe that's how other people saw me, I don't know, I'm just saying that we have to do what we have to do to get through it: if a virgin gut is victim of that, so be it, but I onl feel like that now he's 2!

I'm not sure hat last paragraph made much sense-sorry!

Infacol is toxic here
Or, in fact, the 'virgin gut' theory is one of the biggest loads of bollocks around

My suspicion with Virginia gut is that it doesn't take into account things WILL be swallowed (like i mentioned dust, hair, snot, fluff off favourite teddy...). I've just followed the idea that food and obvious allergens should be avoided before 24-26 weeks.
Same with medicine. Something inert like infacol I'm fine with, something stronger I'd need a reason for.
I have used calpol because tbh I'm not willing to let dd have a fever to "save" her from a reaction that has no family history for me etc. Had there been an allergy to it I might think twice but as it was my priority was treating the illness my dd had then and there.

Where did you read that Calpol is heavily linked with eczema op?

Thanks all for your replies. Julia I am definately prone to becoming a bit hung up on this...i'm a bit of a perfectionist!

When DS1 was small we had a really hard time with him...he screamed every waking second when he wasnt feeding and wouldn't sleep for more than 20 mins at a time. He was a different baby after colief and a dummy helped too. However his weight dropped off around 3 months for 3 months and we struggled with my supply the whole time we bf. I always felt that was because of how I handled the situation, I somehow ruined ebf with him. So this time I feel really reluctant to do anything which might jeopodise the feeding which I feel is going well. DS1 was also a bit more clear cut colic last time and thankfully the first thing we tried worked whereas I feel this time it is a bit less clear cut and I potentially have to trial a lot of different medicines to work backwards to a diagnosis (if there even is anything going on).

Totally know what you mean as they got older though, you wonder why it was such a big deal!

Squizita I totally agree that I will be giving him pain relief if he clearly needs it. I think I am just more concerned that I have to trial potentially lots of different medicines to see what works and I dont definately know if he needs them.

NickyEds I dont know how to link sorry but if you google that phrase it will come up with the article I read it on

Having had a severely colicky baby I would try anything to help him not be in distress /discomfort. I guess in a similar way when ds has a temperature I wouldn't not give paracetamol (calpol) to reduce his pain...

A lot of people think it's nonesense: I didn't and I tried my best and I think that's the key- just try your best. If you're keen to aim for a virgin gut, go for it, but be prepared for other people to not get it and judge you for it.

Like i said, people thought I was a neurotic hippy. They were probably right. Luckily nothing too serious came up that presented a choice between administering stuff for relief or compromising his gut. If something had have come up I imagine I would have chosen the relief option over the Virgin gut, but there would have been a careful thought process behind it, in the same way I chose carefully the number of layers he wore to bed or the kind of food I was feeding him.

You will get people like ickle who think that your depriving your child of comfort or pain relief when all your doing is weighing up the options. However, I do agree with ickle in as much as I would have given calpol if he needed it, just like I gave ds ibuprofen when it was prescribed for his eyebrow cyst: but I thought carefully about it and discussed it with the gp.

Best of luck

Is the gut thing perhaps psychological too? Like you say - that perfectionist thing can make one thing seem the answer, and cause excess guilt.
I have mild anxiety and get elements of this (eg about doing safe sleeping perfectly ... I had to have a hcp explain if baby dozed off in the car seat for just 30 min that's ok and not the same as being left for hours! Just like gut health it is important to sleep safely but I'd got a bit obsessed).

Yeah definately squizita I think I am very much, I have to do things to the letter id I am going to do it at all and with the gut thing it is like I am ebf so once I read about the virgin gut it was like I felt I had to cover all bases and do it perfectly. I do worry a lot as well and always felt like I didnt get things right with DS1.

icklekid yes like I said earlier I wouldn't let him suffer excessively e.g. if he clearly needed pain relief. But I am uneasy with trialling a lot of different medicines on him if the negatives out weigh the positves. The problem is I really doubt myself whether he actually has reflux...sometimes I think it may just be wind or even just normal newborn behaviours and then other times in briefly convinced he has. With DS1 there was really clearly something wrong, be was clearly in pain and it was distressing for us all to the point where my primary thought was getting help. I suppose I am looking at the least risk to his health.

Thanks Julia really appreciate it. I think my family think im a bit of neurotic hippy and I didnt mention the virgin gut thing to the gp as I can imagine a lot of people rolling their eyes! I thought I might be less neurotic with dc2!

Ha ha ha, it was my second ds that got the Virgin gut!

And I know exactly what you mean about how he's being. I went through all of this: is it reflux? Normal? My gut feeling was that there was something amiss, but he's two now and fine. Looking back I would say he was a high needs baby, but he seems to have a cows milk intolerance (untested but he has much looser nappies after eating cows milk yoghurt, cheese and drinking cows milk) and I wonder if all the possessing, unsettledness and wakings were down to that.

I can 't actually believe that you would even think about restricting medicine that your child needed eg to reduce fever/stop vomiting, because you were following the "virgin gut" b*llocks.

That is insane.

If it helps, the official defiinition of exclusive breastfeeding for research purposes excludes medication.

Obviously babies should not be given meds they don't actually need, but IMO it's perverse to avoid necessary meds which might enhance a baby's well-being.

Op has clearly stated that she is contemplating options tha present the least risk to his health. It's not a perversion or insane. She's come to Mumsnet looking for advice/discussion which I think is quite normal.

What about the rotavirus vaccine?

I am pretty sure that the rotavirus vaccine has decimated my baby's 'virgin gut'. Still keeping on with the ebf thing but will go longer than I had planned before introducing solids. Both times she had explosive diahorrea where she was pooing every hour for two days. Not much gut bacteria left after that I'd imagine!!!

Thanks tiktok, that information is exactly what I was looking for.

I am really angry and upset at the use of the words perverse and insane being directed towards me though when I have clearly said several times that I would give medicines and pain relief when clearly needed which I have stated it isnt. I am trying do the best for my ds health wise so thanks for making me feel like a cruel mother!

Julia I really really appreciate you sticking up for me and reading what i'd actually said

It's all good, I just totally recognise your situation and thought train.

I didn't call anyone perverse!! Just to clarify: for researchers and for official stats collectors etc , excl bf ' allows' medication etc :)

Thanks tiktok that answers my quesion exactly. Also having looked up the word perverse I now understand the context you meant it in so apologies.

Thanks julia im glad i'm getting across what i'm thinking with this! Its weighing up what is the greater good...