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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Why is an early morning feed important?

23 replies

Chocolateporridge · 22/01/2015 21:32

I bf my dd for 18 months and, although it was hard at the start, I managed to persevere despite some huge obstacles.

Now, with my ds who's eight weeks, I am struggling so much that I battle every day with thoughts of switching fully to ff.

I have huge anxiety issues and was diagnosed with PND this week so I'd really appreciate it if someone could answer some questions for me as I'm really not thinking straight and can't get my head around things.

Like most people, our evenings mostly consisted of cluster feeding and screaming, and I was battling through but the anxiety of sitting feeding when there were a million things to do (irrational I know as my dh is extremely helpful) was proving too much so I decided to give a formula feed at around 7pm and then a bf dream feed at around 10.30 which meant that my evenings are calmer, plus this last two nights he's slept from the dream feed until around 7am. However now my afternoons are going pear shaped. First it was the five pm feed and now it's the mid afternoon feed, it just seems like I'm not making enough because he just wants to cluster feed all afternoon and for the last three days he's not slept at all in the afternoon. Today I've had to end up giving him two 7oz formula feeds and it's really upsetting me because this is not what I want.

Can anyone tell me why this is happening? Is my supply dropping because of stress? My GP told me it was time to stop beating myself up and just ff because I spend most of my days crying which is not good for me or my family but I found the thought of stopping even more stress-inducing.

Is it because he's been sleeping through the 12pm to 3am slot that's supposed to regulate your supply? I've never understood how that works, surely babies start sleeping through that feed at some point yet mum's supplies don't stop.

Please can someone help me to get on track?

OP posts:

BMO · 22/01/2015 21:45

I'd guess it's just that he is little and likes being on the boob. What is it particularly that you feel goes wrong in the afternoon?

BrianButterfield · 22/01/2015 21:48

Cluster feeding does not mean you aren't making enough at all! It's a baby's way of signalling that they will be needing more - going into a growth spurt, for example. More time spent feeding encourages more supply later. This is the absolute best thing that could happen to improve your milk supply - adding formula is disrupting that process so if you want to BF rather than mix or FF it's better to go with the cluster feeding rather than giving a bottle,

Original poster

Chocolateporridge · 22/01/2015 21:49

Well he was in a pretty good routine of having a feed around midday and then sleeping for a couple of hours then feeding again around 3pm and then 5pm but now he won't sleep at all and just feeds the entire afternoon.

OP posts:

Original poster

Chocolateporridge · 22/01/2015 21:52

Thanks Brian, I do want to mix feed, ie just one bottle at roughly 7pm and bf the rest of the day but is this possible?

Can you explain the "middle of the night feed regulates your supply" thing?

OP posts:

PourquoiTuGachesTaVie · 22/01/2015 21:52

There's a growth spurt at around 8 weeks and if you are giving formula in the evening then he's missing a feed which will affect your supply as I understand it. The cluster feeds are to increase your supply.

Original poster

Chocolateporridge · 22/01/2015 21:55

Thanks pourquoi, but if I consistently give the 7pm feed as formula won't my supply just adjust to that?

OP posts:

BMO · 22/01/2015 21:55

There's no such thing as a routine at 8 weeks - their patterns change on a daily basis at that age. Doesn't mean anything is wrong.

The 3am feed is about hormones being highest, but I don't think that is relevant by 8 weeks as your supply is driven my demand not hormones by this point.

StrikesMatches · 22/01/2015 21:58

Could he be having a growth spurt? I nearly lost my mind feeding both of mine through every single bloody growth spurt, but never realised until things settled down about a week later what had been going on.

angryangryyoungwoman · 22/01/2015 22:00

My daughter fed through the day almost constantly for 4 months. All was fine. If they are gaining weight, it's not an issue unless it is for you. If it's any consolation, she is still breastfeeding at 14 months and it still varies, it's anything from 1- 12 feeds a day, depending on her.

Brandysnapper · 22/01/2015 22:08

I think at least one cluster-feeding frenzy time a day is pretty normal - many do it in the evening, looks like your lo has swapped round to afternoon. Are you able to just sit and feed, or is there too much to do?

FATEdestiny · 22/01/2015 22:21

Chocolateporridge

You don't just have one baby to deal with this time around, you have two and they will be different. You will find it different.

Do not beat yourself up if you decide to formula feed, mix feed, give one bottle a day or indeed breastfeed. It's all fine.

I exclusively breastfed my first two children and then when I ended up ffing DC3 I took the guilt very hard. I am not mix feeding DC4 (mostly ff tho) because you know what - I have come to realise just how unimportant how you feed your baby is.

If formula feeding saves your mental health then there is a very good argument that it would be more beneficial than breast.

To answer your question - there is a hormone that controls milk production - I forget it's name. Levels of this hormone peak in the middle of the night apparently and this is why breastfeeders consider night feeds important.

JustTryEverything · 22/01/2015 22:22

Please try not to worry - as hard as that sounds but I think you might be overthinking this - which is no surprise with PND and anxiety!

You definitely deserve these - you sound like a very caring mum.

8 weeks is still very, very new and your baby is the best person to listen to. They are changing so much, it's very likely that what they need from you will not have settled into any kind of predictable routine yet. It sounds as if trying to track / change a routine of feeds is causing a huge amount of stress - so if you want to keep breastfeeding going, then I would really try to relax about it.

My DD2 is 12 weeks and I am bf and to be honest i couldn't tell you what times she feeds or sleeps. All I know is that I feed her as soon as practically possible if she starts crying. She too had a few days of cluster / dream feeding then sleeping for 6 - 8 hours but that's changed now. This afternoon, she's been on and off pretty non-stop but I just settled down with Hollyoaks on planner! As pp have said, I take that as her "putting in her order" for the next couple of days.

I have great faith in nature and the supply and demand relationship of bf - introducing formula in order to try to shape a routine at this stage could upset that. She is happy and growing well. My house is a mess, the toddler is almost word perfect on Toy Story and we eat out of the freezer a lot but 'rolling with it' is working well for my peace of mind. On the other hand, if routine is important in controlling your anxiety, then that should be a big part of the decision making if you decide to mix or exclusively ff. whatever you decide, be kind to yourself.

FATEdestiny · 22/01/2015 22:22

...I am now mix feeding DC4...

Original poster

Chocolateporridge · 22/01/2015 22:37

Thank you so much for all the lovely helpful comments, I'm in tears again! So having a ff in the evening could affect my supply the rest of the day? Maybe if I make sure we feed through the night then my supply will increase? I'm still a bit confused

OP posts:

StrikesMatches · 22/01/2015 23:27

Chocolateporridge, I'm not an expert, but I think if you are consistent in when you give a ff, the your bf will regulate itself around that. Your body basically follows your baby's lead in when to supply milk, so once you get into a bit of a pattern (although it might feel like it changes daily!) your body will catch up.

Best of luck with it all - it's hard going, but no doubt you're doing a great job.

Imeg · 23/01/2015 08:52

Hi Chocolate, I know plenty of people who have given one bottle in the evenings and have successfully breastfed the rest of the time. I think the key if you want to continue breastfeeding the rest of the time is not to start giving bottles at other times (apart from the odd one-off if you're out or something).

As I understand it a regular bottle once a day will not be a problem for supply, but if you start giving a bottle at other times because baby seems unsettled or you think they are not getting enough from breastfeeding then you may end up 'accidentally' giving too many bottles and your supply may suffer. Obviously if you decide you want to move to formula feeding that's not a problem, but it sounds like you would like to continue breastfeeding if you can. If that is the case I would suggest trying to stick to only the evening bottle as that sounds like it is working well for you, and if he seems to be unsettled in the afternoon then try either extra feeds in the afternoon, or if you feel he's just unsettled rather than hungry, try distraction by going for a walk in the pram or similar.

I found that always, just when I thought we had got into a bit of a pattern, things would change, so could this just be normal baby changes? I wasn't giving a regular bottle at this age and from time to time it did seem from his behaviour like he wasn't getting enough milk, but he clearly was as his weight was shooting up. So try not to judge your supply by baby's behaviour :)
Hope you find a way of feeding that works for you and your family.

Original poster

Chocolateporridge · 23/01/2015 22:50

Imeg your post is so reassuring, thank you ever so much. I feel like I'm trying to think through a fog at the moment and I really can't remember what I did when I bf my dd.

Today went marginally better and I managed to get away with just one ff but I did wake him at 3am to feed, just in case that would boost my supply.

I stopped the meds last night too, I was just too spaced out on them, so hopefully I'll be able to get my head around it all now!

OP posts:

FATEdestiny · 23/01/2015 23:21

What meds have you stopped?

Meds for yourself or meds for baby?

Be careful stopping any medication without talking to your doctor first.

Original poster

Chocolateporridge · 24/01/2015 19:50

Thanks, it was my antidepressants that I stopped but I'd only taken one for two nights so I thought it would be okay and I do feel much better for not having them.

OP posts:

FATEdestiny · 24/01/2015 21:04

But maybe you need then Chocolate? Have you spoken to your doctor about your medication? Maybe your GP could change the specific antidepressant you are on, or the dose?

FATEdestiny · 24/01/2015 21:05

them*

Original poster

Chocolateporridge · 24/01/2015 22:37

Thanks fate, I do think I need to be taking something but as I'm breastfeeding my choice is limited so I'm going to see my GP on Tuesday, I feel ok and I have my dh with me over the weekend so I'm alright.

OP posts:

Kentigern · 24/01/2015 23:46

Chocolate I've just seen this, and wanted to reassure you about the night feed - I know the advice on breast feeding is often that you should wake the baby through the night, but frankly if your baby is sleeping, and gaining weight, then I would give yourself a break and let him sleep! My DD is EBF, and has been sleeping through since 7 weeks - with absolutely no trouble to supply or her - she's just tended to cluster feed in the afternoons as it happens! I've raised it with a couple of HV and they've said given she's gaining weight, never wake a sleeping baby!!

I've got no wise words with regards to PND, but go easy on yourself, it sounds like you're doing a great job

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